IMAGINE archive: collected off of Imagine@email.sp.unisys.com ARCHIVE XXIII Jun. 6 '92 - Jun. 25 '92 If you have questions or problems with this file, email Marvin Landis at marvinl@amber.rc.arizona.edu note: each message seperated by a '##' &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& Subject: Re: fractal clouds Date: Sat, 6 Jun 92 13:30:21 PDT From: guardian@netcom.com (Andrew Denton) Fractel clouds... Well there are ways of doin git.... 1: take an already generated fractel cloud image generated and usit as abackdrop 2: take a vista iobject and make it clouds in imagine 2.0 Guardian AKA AHD -- ## Subject: MMR+no RAM ->How fast? Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1992 17:08:53 -0500 From: Steven Joseph Chmura Memory world is currently selling MMR 20mhz+68881 for $289. The 25mhz (all with mmu) +68882 is $350. They also have static column ram for $89 with purchase. I cannot afford to add 32bit ram to my system. I am tired of the 68000 version of Imagine, Sculpt, VistPRO ect. I realize that for normal systyem operations I will see little or no improvement. But how much imporvement will I see with these programs that make extensive use of the math chip? Also, how ,uch imporvement will I see in going from the 20mhz 68881 to the 25mhz 68882? Would the 512K static ram for kickstart be worth it for the rendering progs? Also, has anyone heard any incompatability between MMR and SupraHD controllers? Thanks. I would really appreciate some answers. :wq ## Subject: video printer Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 21:10:24 PDT From: kevink@ced.berkeley.edu (Kevin Kodama) well, i have managed to borrow a Sony color video printer UP-5000W for a couple of days, and it is FUN ! have a pack of film, and am cranking out hardcopy of toaster and imagine stuff ! the machine just hooks up through composite, and prints in a minute or two ! small images only, 5x8, but very nifty.... ## Subject: Re: video printer Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 2:38:15 CDT From: "Scott Jones (Dr. Jones)" I also had the chance to see a video printer last week! A Panasonic, forget the model # (specs at work). The both, at a Teacher's Tech conv had the machine hooked up to a regular camcorder. They had some picts off from a Laser Video Player also, that were very impressive! They took a pict of me and gave it to me. Not a bad little machine for around $1200 (not meaning to sound like an add). Sence seeing this machine I have been wondering about dunping 24bit images to film (using the equipement we have). We have a Dos machine with a 35mm slide/film printer from Montage that does a great job! Problem is that I would have to convert the IFF24s, FrameStores, RGBs into Targa or 24bit Tiff before printing. I know that there are several products that do this, but would just like your guys' opinions on them. Type at ya l8r.. Scott.. no fancy sig to skip :) ## Subject: Labels Date: Tue, 09 Jun 92 01:31:16 EDT From: joec@cellar.org Ok, Gang I have a question for you, (actually 2 questions for you) #1 How do you put labels on glass objects? Exp. A scale on a beaker! #2 Does anyone use Scenery Animator2? I am trying to do an anim with it and i keep getting ghosting on the anim. What I mean is that it will render the first few frames then the top say 10 rows start showing ghosts from the previous frames. (Am I clear on the explanation? It is kinda confusing) HELP! Joe Cotellese ## Subject: Re: video printer Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 7:04:01 MDT From: echadez@carl.org (Edward Chadez) In a previous letter, Kevin Kodama wrote: } } well, i have managed to borrow a Sony color video printer UP-5000W for a } couple of days, and it is FUN ! have a pack of film, and am cranking out } hardcopy of toaster and imagine stuff ! the machine just hooks up through } composite, and prints in a minute or two ! small images only, 5x8, but } very nifty.... Yes...but how much does it cost? :-) Ed -- Edward Chadez CARL Systems, Inc Network/Operations (303)758-3030 Programmer Internet: echadez@carl.org ## Subject: repeated messages Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 8:39:45 EDT From: srp%modcomp@uunet.uu.net (Steve Pietrowicz) I've sent e-mail to root@emory.mathcs.emory.edu and to root@cowpas.UUCP explaining the repeated e-mail message problem. The e-mail looks like it was handed off from cowpas.UUCP OK, but when emory hands off to it's next site (email.sp.unisys.com) it doesn't delete the mail...and it just keeps queuing it to be sent. As I said, I sent e-mail to both sites, and hopefully this will fix the problem. On an Imagine related note :*) Someone on CompuServe said that his check for Steve's book was returned from Impulse because they were out of stock!! I gave that person the full info about how to order the book directly, but I was a bit surprised to see that Impulse just didn't re-order the book.... (Hey Steve, I'm sure you can make a bunch-o-money if you release that book to the MS-DOS world when Impulse hits the streets with it's Imagine for the PC. Good luck!) Steve ## Subject: Re: video printer Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 15:04:41 -0700 From: spodell@ucscb.ucsc.edu (66291000) ADPro with its Professional Conversion Pak works great. (Especially if you already have ADPro.... The Conv. Pak is $90 list.) It supports Rendition, Targa, and TIFF. I've used the TIFF module with great success. - Stefon ## Subject: re: MMR+no RAM ->How fast? Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 18:17:55 CDT From: dave@flip (Dave Wickard) >From khobbs@saim4.boeing.com Tue Jun 9 12:44:41 1992 Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 07:32:32 PDT From: khobbs@saim4.boeing.com (Kevin W. Hobbs) Subject: re: MMR+no RAM ->How fast? Steven Joseph Chmura writes: > Would the 512K static ram for kickstart be worth it for the rendering progs? Yes, the ROM screen drawing routines are much faster when located in 32bit memory. (Faster screen redraws, as one example.) > Also, has anyone heard any incompatability between MMR and SupraHD controllers? I had the Supra 500XP HD. Everything was find, untill I tried to get it working with the MMR that is. I was on the phone several times with MMR and Supra about the problem. Supra told me there weren't any problems that they had heard of, they said they had tried the MMR on several A500's without a problem. MMR told me that they have had problems in the past with getting the MMR to work with the Supra 500XP. We tried several things; extra power supply for the HD, fine tuning the voltage on the MMR board, trying to boot without the Supra Autoboot ROM, anyway nothing worked. I had to sell the Supra. I now own a GVP, and it works! I have seen on BIX that there was at least one other person that had the same problems I did. I would call MMR before you buy it. Kevin Hobbs (khobbs@saim4.ds.boeing.com) ## Subject: Welcome To My Nightmare Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 18:06:04 CDT From: dave@flip (Dave Wickard) Howdy Imagineers :-) Amazingly, the bouncey bouncey troubles seem to have ended. I had to take the Imagine Mailing List offline for a while and just kinda stockpile the posts and hold them until the bounces ended. They seem to have stopped now. "Klang" was not at fault. It is correct that he only posted it one time and some evil mailing loop created the trouble. The System Administrator here and the one at the other site are gonna butt heads and see if they can figure out what caused it so as to avoid it in the future from repeating and repeating and repeating. :-) NOW...if I may impress on you the importance of only passing along the Imagine-request@email.sp.unisys.com account to non-List members. When a new account is requested, the first thing I do is send the little Imagine Mailing List Guide as a sort of test send. This will eliminate most of our troubles and keep addresses that can't be connected properly from accessing the List until we have things talking smoothly between us. So if you want to pass along the List to a friend...on USENET...or a BBS...or whatever.... please do! But please pass along the Imagine-request@email.sp.unisys.com address to begin with. I get to them every weekday without fail (when I am at work that is ;-) ) so nobody has to wait long at all. ALSO, the mail that I "collected" in a dummy account during the bounce period will be following this note. It will be listed as being from ME...since I am reposting it...but the correct person posting will be referenced in it. As far as the Imagine Contest goes....I still have a few calls left to make regarding prizes, and after I get THAT all settled, we will post the official rules and time periods and that kinda thing....but since it has NOT been decided yet, feel free to keep bouncing ideas around! That's about it for now...thank you for the personal mail phone calls, and your continued interest in the Imagine Mailing List. By the way, we are just about at the 300 mark for member sites. Amazing ain't it? :-) Dave Wickard (612) 456-4725 dave@flip.sp.unisys.com Sam_Malone@cup.portal.com ## Subject: A Not So FAQ? Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 18:09:32 CDT From: dave@flip (Dave Wickard) >From pjfoley@sage.cc.purdue.edu Tue Jun 9 10:20:46 1992 Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 10:20:25 -0500 From: pjfoley@sage.cc.purdue.edu (PJ Foley) Subject: A not so FAQ??? I just had a problem losing polygons and entire objects in SCANLINE mode. I made a 25 frame animation that rendered overnight, and frames 3-5 have missing objects (or at least parts of them). Strange problem. I really doubt it was do to memory loss because I'm using no brushmaps, I was not using any other programs at the time, and I have a 14Meg system. Any ideas? Meanwhile I'll see if I can repeat this problem. PJ Kinetic Dreams ## Subject: re:Labels Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 18:14:11 CDT From: dave@flip (Dave Wickard) >From amallory@discover.wright.edu Tue Jun 9 11:36:30 1992 Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 12:38:13 EDT From: amallory@discover.wright.edu (Aragorn J Mallory) To: imagine@email.sp.unisys.com >joe@cellar.org writes: >How do you put lables on glass objects? Exp. A scale on a beaker! I had been puzzled by this one for some time myself and finally found the solution thought a friend via Compuserve. Frist of all you need to do a brush wrap and you need to make the scale that you plan to wrap in Dpaint or some other other simalar paint program. Then in order to wrap the brush onto the beaker you just do: brush wrap flat X wrap Z and with imagines 2.0 auto size you shouldn't have to worry about the sizing. Then click on the genlock gadget, on the brush requestor, to make the background color disapear (so that only the scale will apper on the beaker!) Hope you can work though this! Aragorn. (amallory@discvoer.wright.edu) I Imagine therefor I am! ## Subject: How To Buy Worley's Book Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 18:16:15 CDT From: dave@flip (Dave Wickard) >From Harv@cup.portal.com Tue Jun 9 12:34:09 1992 To: imagine@email.sp.unisys.com From: Harv@cup.portal.com Subject: How to buy Worley's book Lines: 44 Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 10:33:43 PDT Time to clear up these rumors and bad info. From the mouth of Mike Halvorsen into my ear this morning: Impulse no longer sells Steve Worley's book, "Understanding Imagine 2.0." Period. Don't try to buy it from Impulse; they don't handle it anymore. If you want to buy the book you have two choices: either visit an Amiga dealer or bookstore who carries the book and buy it over the counter there, or if your local dealer is numb to reality, then order it directly from Steve Worley's company: Apex Publishing 405 El Camino Real Suite 121 Menlo Park, CA 94025 If buying direct from Apex, include a check or money order in the amount of USDollars $29.95. This price includes shipping and sales tax. Be sure to include your ship to address. Apex does not have a phone number right now but when it does it'll be published here. If you wish to communicate with Steve Worley electronically you may do so by email at: worley@cup.portal.com Steve Worley is also an Asst. Moderator of the Amiga Zone (which I run) on The Portal System, a pay service with excellent Amiga support. Portal's Amiga Zone has over 700 Meg of files online, 24 hours a day, and the entire Fred Fish Disk collection (currently 670 disks) online, batch Zmodem protocol, the entire Usenet, unlimited Internet email, & etc. If you want to join Portal and be able to chat with Worley and a lot of other Imagine users live, download zillions of Imagine-related files (pictures, objects, support software, etc.) and visit Worley's own Apex Publishing Vendor Support Area in the Amiga Zone, you can do so by dialing 1-408-973-9111 or enter "c portal" at the "@" prompt from any SprintNet (Telenet) node nationwide or enter "portal" at the "please login:" prompt of any Tymnet node in North America. If you want more info on Portal before signing up, or have any questions about any of this, or want a copy of our nifty rate chart comparing Portal's rates to those of Genie and CI$ (which will amaze you), then just write to me: harv@cup.portal.com Regards, Harv ## Subject: Re: video printer Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 08:14:17 EST From: Adam Benjamin To do picture conversion I usually use Paint Shop Pro (running under windows). It can keep track of up to 32 bit color maps regardless of your PC's display card. it dithers quite well and you can trim images too. What I really like about it is you can apply "filters" to your image, in fact you can even make up custom filters of your own choosing. (tricky but neet) This is a shareware program, but NOTHING is disabled! (just a register requester pops up at the begining) What I don't like about it... NO IFF support, so you need another program to convert your IFF24's to Targa. What I usually do, is Jpeg the Iff24 on the Amiga (makes it easier to carry around on floppy too!) then UNjpeg it on the PC into a Targa file. (Jpeg is PD for both platforms and the PC version automatically creates TARGA files) If you are worried about lost information set the Q factor to 100. On a related note, Here at work we have a color Laser plotter, (Raster Graphics) it does up to 22x34 prints from targa files but I can't get very good results from it at all. it does 200 DPI but it looks like a TV when you are too close (you can see the pixels and color mixing) Anyone else know anything about this plotter? Whats the DPI of the video printers? ************************************************************ * Adam Benjamin A.Benjamin@mi04.zds.com * * Christian Animator an353@cleveland.freenet.edu * * Disclaimer: Nothing I say means anything to anyone that * * might take it to mean something I didn't! * ## Subject: Looking for Anim collections Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 11:11:11 EST From: Adam Benjamin I am looking for information on animation films (collections like the Amiga World ones) that I might be able to broadcast on our local Public access center. I think animation is way cool! and I would love to be able to show some the the Amiga's great work off on the Access station. I recall there was an interview tape of Eric Schwartz (sp?) done a while back, wonder if I might get the permission to display that on Access?? Also there was a person in Cal. who posted (here I think) that he was collecting Amiga animations and presentations on tape sort of like Fred Fish does with programs. I wrote his snail-mail address down, but I can't seem to find it. Did anyone contact him? Does he have much of a collection? P.S. If you are interested in having your animation played on TV. I may just start a collection of my own. Of course this is NON-profit Access television, but your name would of course appear on tv! (and viewed by at least 2 people! {counting myself}) Has anyone done this? Is anyone interested in this? Shoot, the Amiga could blow some of the Liquid TV stuff from MTV out of the water easy... Later,... ************************************************************ * Adam Benjamin A.Benjamin@mi04.zds.com * * Christian Animator an353@cleveland.freenet.edu * * Disclaimer: Nothing I say means anything to anyone that * * might take it to mean something I didn't! * ## Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 09:07:47 -0700 From: davis@soomee.zso.dec.com (Mark Davis) Errors to: nobody@email.sp.unisys.com Subject: 'morph' anim(s) location? Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 09:07:45 -0700 From: ""mark w. davis DTN 548.8749 "" X-Mts: smtp I recall a few postings detailing the contents and location of a couple of imagine or imagemaster anims (in DCTV format?) that Mark Thompson (possibly) made. Can someone give me the name(s) and location of these anims? Thanks mark davis ## Subject: Caligari 2 & Imagine Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 12:27:48 MDT From: koren%hpmoria.fc.hp.com%hpfcla.fc.hp.com@hpfcla.fc.hp.com (Steve Koren) Does anyone have a comparison of Caligari 2 and Imagine? I've been thinking about picking up Caligari 2. My reasons are: * The octree renderer it uses is more effecient for the 2nd and subsequent frames generated from the same scene. Does anyone have any timing comparisons between Caligari2 and Imagine? * My general impression is that Caligari is less "finicky" than Imagine is. I always have to spend a lot of time tweaking things to get my Imagine images to look good. Since I have only a little time to play with these things, I'd like to do as much as possible in that time. By "finicky" I mean several things. One is that I always end up having to tweak various surface parameters to get things looking OK. Also, I run into things which I am pretty sure are bugs in Imagine. I see odd results such as objects disappearing in a scene, but re-appearing if I make some other, unrelated change someplace else. These things are quite frustrating at times. The cheapest price I have seen for Caligari 2 is $235. Has anyone seen it cheaper? Is this, in general, a good product? I think it is probably less powerful than Imagine (is this true?), but I'm willing to live with that if I can get faster results with it. - steve ## Subject: More on dissappearing objects in SCANLINE Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 15:03:29 -0500 From: pjfoley@sage.cc.purdue.edu (PJ Foley) I went back and rendered the frames individually (not as an anim), and they all had all polys in place. My theories are: 1) A very strange bug indeed. 2) The opening of the screens when putting togeter an anim are just enough to make some objects (and parts of objects) dissappear in mid-render. I changed the size and location of the troublesome objects, and the SAME ones dropped out of sight! It seems that different times and settings, different objects would be affected, but this is not the case. It is only 3 frames that have problems (2,3,4), even rendering with different object configurations. Wierd. PJ Foley Kinetic Dreams ## Subject: Planets Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 15:10:31 -0500 From: pjfoley@sage.cc.purdue.edu (PJ Foley) Should I be splitting up my questions into different letters? Or do "we" prefer less letters with more questions? These are so unrelated that I didn't want any one question to be ignored if the others did not have anyone's interest. How can one get convincing planets in Imagine??? I heard Lightwave 3D has settings to help this (I bet the Bab5 people were in on this one!). I have tried such things as: Huge IOR's. Fog planets with a fog length of 1 or less. Putting a dense atmosphere object around a planet to diffuse the shading. Other wild and crazy things. Would moving the light source back help? How about adding a second fill-light (I was hoping not to come down to this). Any help is muy mucho appreciado! PJ Foley Kinetic Dreams ## Subject: Essence Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 15:05:03 -0500 From: pjfoley@sage.cc.purdue.edu (PJ Foley) Does someone have a posting of the different texture maps that are going to be available in Essence? I saw an incomplete one a week or so back on Studio BBS, and don't want to call back due to long-distance bills. Thanks! PJ Foley Kinetic Dreams ## Subject: 'morph' anim(s) location? Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 14:38:19 EDT From: Mark Thompson Mark Davis writes: > I recall a few postings detailing the contents and location > of a couple of imagine or imagemaster anims (in DCTV format?) > that Mark Thompson (possibly) made. Can someone give me the > name(s) and location of these anims? I have never made any of my 3D animations public simply because of size (they start at about 3MB and go up). I did however upload an Imagemaster morphing animation in DCTV format which generated a phenominal number of very positive responses. It can be found on hubcap in following location: /pub/amiga/incoming/graphics/MarkMorph.lzh It is an animation of my wife turning into a leopard and is rather impressive IMHO :-) |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| | ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER | | --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics | | ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect | | Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 & General Nuisance | | | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ## Subject: Re: Looking for Anim collections Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 14:57:04 -0500 From: pjfoley@sage.cc.purdue.edu (PJ Foley) The tape of the Eric Schwartz interview should be available from AFIT user group in Dayton, OH. Their bbs # is 513-879-9798, and you need to talk to Mr Rumford (I believe that is his name). Just holler on the comp.sys.amiga somewhere for AFIT, and you'll be sure to find them. The tape was originally played on a Public Access channel, so I believe the program is public domain. It does cost about $20 for a tape though (for duplication, materials, and shipping), and it is near commercial quality. You might also want to see if you can get it on a larger tape format. PJ Foley (Remote AFIT member) Kinetic Dreams ## Subject: Re: video printer Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 15:18:23 EDT From: Mark Thompson Adam Benjamin writes: > On a related note, Here at work we have a color Laser plotter, > (Raster Graphics) it does up to 22x34 prints from targa files but I > can't get very good results from it at all. it does 200 DPI but it > looks like a TV when you are too close (you can see the pixels and > color mixing) Well at 200 dpi with a 768 x 480 image, anything larger than 3.8" x 2.4" will require pixel interpolation or else the pixels will become very evident. 22"x34" with that resolution would yield 45 mil pixels, ie HUGE. Have you tried it with a higher resolution image? If you need one, I have jpeg'd images at resolutions up to 3008x1920 which consume under 700K. |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| | ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER | | --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics | | ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect | | Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 & General Nuisance | | | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ## Subject: Re: video printer Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 18:28:54 EDT From: dan@cs.pitt.edu (Dan Drake) > Well at 200 dpi with a 768 x 480 image, anything larger than 3.8" x 2.4" > will require pixel interpolation or else the pixels will become very > evident. 22"x34" with that resolution would yield 45 mil pixels, ie HUGE. > Have you tried it with a higher resolution image? If you need one, I have > jpeg'd images at resolutions up to 3008x1920 which consume under 700K. Last year, I made some inquiries about making posters out of some of my renderings. It was quite a while ago, so things are a bit fuzzy. For a 16x20 poster, it would cost around 100 bucks for the first one. The company wanted a targa image file in something like 4000x5000 (??) I know this is off the topic a bit, but may still be of interest. I will probably look into it again, cuz they make good christmas presents :-) dan. ## Subject: Re: Planets Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 19:49:29 -0400 From: mbc@po.cwru.edu (Michael B. Comet) > > >Should I be splitting up my questions into different letters? Or do "we" >prefer less letters with more questions? These are so unrelated that I >didn't want any one question to be ignored if the others did not have anyone's >interest. > probably better to split them up if you want more people to read them... >How can one get convincing planets in Imagine??? I heard Lightwave 3D has >settings to help this (I bet the Bab5 people were in on this one!). > >I have tried such things as: > >Huge IOR's. >Fog planets with a fog length of 1 or less. >Putting a dense atmosphere object around a planet to diffuse the shading. >Other wild and crazy things. > >Would moving the light source back help? >How about adding a second fill-light (I was hoping not to come down to this). > >Any help is muy mucho appreciado! > >PJ Foley >Kinetic Dreams > > I have recently made an anim of this spaceship coming around a planet in 24 bit and found that the PASTELLA texture for Imagine 2.0 is great for this, if you just want swirls of color. Try these settings for a blue planet with some swiling lighter blue shades. Note: If you are not rendering in 24 bit, they really don't look that good....you kind of need 24 bit to get the full effect: ATTRIBUTES: R G B Value Color: 0 0 255 * Reflect: 0 0 0 * Filter: 0 0 0 * Specular: 0 0 0 * Dithering: * * * 255 Hardness: * * * 0 Roughness * * * 0 Shininess: * * * 0 Texture: PASTELLA Detail Size: 32 RandomSeed: 123 Red1: 255 Green1: 255 Blue1: 255 Red2: 0 Green2: 0 Blue2: 255 Red3: 255 Green3: 255 Blue3: 255 Red4: 0 Green4: 200 Blue4: 255 This is done for a sphere with size 40,40,40. Hope this helps. Michael Comet mbc@po.CWRU.Edu ## Subject: Re: video printer Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 19:58:38 EDT From: Jason Andreas > > > > Well at 200 dpi with a 768 x 480 image, anything larger than 3.8" x 2.4" > > will require pixel interpolation or else the pixels will become very > > evident. 22"x34" with that resolution would yield 45 mil pixels, ie HUGE. > > Have you tried it with a higher resolution image? If you need one, I have > > jpeg'd images at resolutions up to 3008x1920 which consume under 700K. > > Last year, I made some inquiries about making posters out of some of my > renderings. It was quite a while ago, so things are a bit fuzzy. > For a 16x20 poster, it would cost around 100 bucks for the first one. > The company wanted a targa image file in something like 4000x5000 (??) > I know this is off the topic a bit, but may still be of interest. > > I will probably look into it again, cuz they make good christmas presents :-) > > dan. Two summers ago I worked for a film lab in New Jersey do imaging software. One of our projects was to do the Pixar posters. It was a once a year thing for Siggraph. Anyway, Pixar sent us 9track tapes with images at 16k x 16k. We sent the tapes to a company in Florida that makes film recorders, (forget the name, but my boss went to high school with one of their people) They'd send us the film back, and we'd output it on CibaChrome (forget the exact spelling) at 30" x 40". There were NO visible scanlines, etc. Looked like some incredible photograph of a highly detailed model. You might have seen them at any of Pixar's booths at Siggraph the past couple of years. Anyway, the price was $400 per print. They cost us around $130 to make. I'm still good friends with the owner and I'll ask him how much he'd charge for a few prints if anybody would like. And yes I did give away as gifts a couple of prints of the bicycle shop from Red's Dream. They are great to hang in your office. ## Subject: Imagine v.s. Caligari & Flame-objectz Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 17:20:35 -0700 From: Jeff Walkup > * The octree renderer it uses is more effecient for the 2nd > and subsequent frames generated from the same scene. Does > anyone have any timing comparisons between Caligari2 and > Imagine? Maybe you are referring to the 'cubic reflection maps' (or something like that)? This is where the scene is rendered once from the view of each reflective object, and then that rendering is used for the subsequent frames. Supposedly makes rendering reflections much faster, in the long run. I'm not sure about the overall speed of Caligari v.s. Imagine, I don't use Caligari, but I've heard that Imagine generally renders faster. Caligari *does* have a nice interface, which *can* make your work faster and easier than Imagine. But a few things you should be aware of: (I just got on this list today, so pardon me if you've heard this before) Caligari does *not* multitask, and it does not support 24-bit files (the consumer version anyway), meaning it does not render in 24-bit, and it does not support 24-bit texture/image maps. The full-on Broadcast version *does*, but it's like $2000+, and I think you were interested in the ~$250 version, right? OK. So now for my first Imagine-list question: Has anyone figured out a way to make decent-looking flames? I have a gas-lamp object and I want to put a flame in the middle of it. I've tried lots of things, bright objects, light objects, fog objects, and combinations of all of those; nothing seems to give me a realistic flame effect. The 'bright' objects aren't bright enough to be flames, and the 'light' objects don't look good either. What I eventually want to do is map an image of some flames onto the flame-object, and then animate the flame-object to look like real flames, as well as animate the light coming from the flame, to get the flickering effect. Any ideas? ----------- // Jeff Walkup Graphics/Animation Designer \\// ## Subject: re: 'morph' anim(s) location? Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 21:49:10 -0700 From: Mark Davis Well, I ftp'd from hubcap /pub/amiga/incoming/graphics/MarkMorph.lzh from hubcap but all I seem to get is a CRC error when attempting to extract the file on my amiga and on my workstation (ultrix) whether using lhA or lharc. i.e. soomee_4> lharc l MarkMorph.lzh PACKED SIZE RATIO CRC STAMP NAME ------- ------- ------ ---- ----------------- ------------- 1282413 1449462 88.4% 49e1 Apr 23 18:00 1984 morph.anim lharc Checksum error (LHarc file?)a: No such file or directory lharc Unknown header (LHarc file ?): No such file or directory ------- ------- ------ ---- ----------------- ------------- 1282413 1449462 88.4% Jun 10 21:04 1992 1 file I get a similar message when using lhA or my workstation. On the amiga it hangs lhA or lharc, I didn't think to try lz. Here is the results of trying lz on the amiga... Listing of archive 'MarkMorph.lzh': Original Packed Ratio Date Time Type CRC Name -------- ------ --- --------- -------- ---- ------------ 14494621282413 11% 23-Apr-84 18:00:46 -lh1- 49E1 morph.anim WARNING: Skipping extraneous/corrupted data Come to think of it, I do not think that I have ever been able to ftp anything from hubcap without problems... I now recall attempting to retrieve the textures mbc uploaded only to find that I couldn't extract them, from my workstation nor Amiga, without CRC errors. I do not have the time nor inclination to troubleshoot this problem... I am able to ftp from other sources, wuarchive, physik, ux1, etc without problems; is MarkMorph.lzh available on another site? mark ## Subject: Re: Looking for Anim collections Date: Thu, 11 Jun 92 10:07:21 -0400 From: kelly@ll.mit.edu >I am looking for information on animation films (collections like the >Amiga World ones) that I might be able to broadcast on our local >Public access center. I think animation is way cool! and I would love >to be able to show some the the Amiga's great work off on the Access >station. I remember seeing an advertisement in a recent issue of AVID magazine (a most excellent "zine" for Amiga 3D'rs), selling thier collection of Amiga animation for the unbelievably low low price of $10 (american!) If I recall correctly the tape was at least an hour long and contained the latest and greatest of Amiga Animation of far and near. The creaters are purposely keeping the price ALAP so anyone can afford this viewing pleasure. I will check on the details of ordering ect.. and post them soon. Dave Kelly ---------> dkelly@ll.mit.edu ## Subject: brushmaps & glass Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 21:36:02 CST From: Jeff Niebergall There have been a number of postings recently about using the genlock button to decal a brushmap. I can get it to work fine except if the object is glass. All I get is the glass without the brushmap. I am using the glass.att from hubcap and it works fine. I tried different attributes with the same brushmap settings and it decals perfectly. Any ideas? Jeff, jnieber@unibase.unibase.sk.ca -- ## Subject: video printer Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1992 20:00:00 -0400 From: Glen Mead Hi All, With these video printers that I've seen mentioned frequently as of late, what type of print process do they use? What type of price range are they in? (I've seen one mail order outlet selling them for $700 US) UG> One of our projects was to do the Pixar posters. It was a once a year UG> for Siggraph. Anyway, Pixar sent us 9track tapes with images at 16k x Can anybody give some information on this Siggraph? I've heard it mentioned in the past but I know absolutely nothing about it. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Glen Mead - RZ/RD 500 Owners Group --- * Amiga-Reader V2.00B * -- Canada Remote Systems - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044 ## Subject: Bug or undesired feature? Date: Thu, 11 Jun 92 12:26:09 -0500 From: pjfoley@sage.cc.purdue.edu (PJ Foley) I noticed that I cannot use a fog object with a Linear texture map to make it fade out into transparancy. The reason I want to do this is simple: light beams that start dense, then fade off gradually (realistically). The fog instead does a color transition (if any) and keeps its density. ICK! Other bugs (?): does the Auto positioning of brushmaps always line up to the WORLD axis instead of the object axis? This makes planes that have been rotated (such as a six sided cube) get streaks from a cross section of the brush instead of the full brush. I have to place the brush by hand, which for some reason is a bit stubborn to scale (or too erradic). The Room for Improvement section: Subgroups (first of all, need to be renamed to subobjects, or surface objects, or something like that) need to be able to be changed, deleted, and renamed, I like these, but they need help. Also, when restricting a brush/texture to a subgroup, the auto positioning/scaling should try to localize on that subgroup ## Subject: images avail on hubcap Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1992 17:01:55 GMT From: menzies@cam.org (Stephen Menzies) I know this is not imagine specific but it is 3D and I know there are users in this mailing list that would be interested as I am by reading this list yet I don't use imagine: I have made availible for ftp, two 24 bit Caligari-Broadcast2.1 renderings and placed them at hubcap.clemson.edu in the directory /pub/amiga/ incoming/graphics . The pics are called Bightside.lzh and Darkside.lzh . These images were made possible with the assistance of Octree Software and RCS Management. These images were of 14 I made (the remaining 12 were made on the sgi/ Taarna Animation System, though) for a 2 week exhibition of computer art in a rented Montreal warehouse space, called <> put on by Infographie Canada in co-operation with FIFOM. The 18 participants in this exhibition include inhouse artists from SoftImage and Taarna Systems as well as many independant artists from the microcomputer/most often the Amiga, community. The show is accompanied by a small catalogue finishes on june14. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions. -stephen -- Stephen Menzies #Internet: menzies@CAM.ORG #Fidonet : Stephen Menzies @ 1:167/265 ## Subject: Steve's Book Date: Thu, 11 Jun 92 14:19:34 CDT From: set@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Toaster Man) I just received my copy of Steve's book.. I think Its outstanding and every one should have a copy. :) For people wandering were to order. I received mine from Safe Harbor. It was $28 and I received It in 3 days. I do not have anything to do with safe harbor. I just think they are one of the best mail order places. Render On.. Steve Tietze. VisioNary Graphics/Video.. ## Subject: Essence: where to get from Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 17:53:07 +0200 From: kaltenha@orion.informatik.uni-freiburg.de (Raoul Kaltenhaeuser) In this list, I heard of the existence of a texture program named essence. Where can I get it? Is there a distributor in germany, or do I have to order in the states? Thanks for the info. Raoul ------------------------------------------- Raoul Kaltenh"auser | kaltenha@orion.informatik.uni-freiburg.de | ## Subject: Re: brushmaps & glass Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1992 12:17:12 -0400 From: John J Humpal Jeff Niebergall writes: > > There have been a number of postings recently about using the > genlock button to decal a brushmap. I can get it to work fine > except if the object is glass. All I get is the glass without > the brushmap. I am using the glass.att from hubcap and it works > fine. I tried different attributes with the same brushmap > settings and it decals perfectly. Hmm. It works fine for me on all different kinds of attributes, including the glass.att from hubcap. The only thing I can think of is a mismatch between what Imagine thinks the genlock color is and the background color (i.e., the "clear" part of your "decal"). Make sure that the imagine.config lists the genlock color as pure black, and that the background of your brushmap is also pure black. -John John J. Humpal -- johnh@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu -- short .sig, std. disclaimer ## Subject: InterChange Plus Date: 12 Jun 92 14:25:31 EDT From: "Syndesis Corp/J. Foust" <76004.1763@compuserve.com> To: >INTERNET: imagine@email.sp.unisys.com Many of you have been calling Syndesis Corporation asking about the new release of InterChange Plus. Here's some news about it, plus more information about what it can do. Armed with this background, I hope the educated users on the networks can come up with some novel suggestions for new features and last-minute improvements. I'd prefer that you send lengthy replies directly to me here on Compuserve, which can be reached via the Internet. If you've got ideas the entire newsgroup might be interested in, post them to the group. All you spies and apple-polishers out there, save this message and pass it on to our competition. When they copy us, we'll all know why. :-) InterChange is a system for translating 3D objects. It is an extensible system, meaning it's a collection of multitasking tools that cooperate to read formats and write formats, as well as manipulate and generate new data. It's a batch-oriented tool, you select a number of files in any format, select an output format, press a button and all the files are converted. The new release is called InterChange Plus, aka "ICP". The interface has changed a little bit. We no longer open a half-dozen windows in your face. Instead, you can easily open and close any Converter windows you want. By default, you only see the main InterChange window. We're still 1.3 and 2.0 compatible. ICP now uses the IEEE math library, meaning you get a speed improvement on your accelerated, FPU-equipped system. We're going to bundle together almost every Amiga-oriented 3D product we've got into a single package. ICP will include Converters for LightWave objects and scenes, Imagine objects, Turbo Silver 2.0 and 3.0, Sculpt, VideoScape 1.0 and 2.0, PAGErender, Atari ST CAD-3D, Vista DEMs, the InterFont Converter for making 3D titles and 20 InterFonts, an ImageMaster ISHAPE Converter, the Statistics Converter for making an ASCII file describing the geometry of an object, the Pro Draw and Aegis Draw Converters, a new Surface Converter that makes it easy to extract, modify and substitute surface attributes during conversions, and Tools that manipulate objects in any format, like PointReduce, Scale and GridSnap. There may be a few more Converters and Tools that I'm not revealing now. (We've left out the Forms In Flight 1.0 Converter and the InterFont Designer. Sorry.) InterFont no longer exists as a separate product, and neither does the Turbo Silver Module Pack. The price will increase, but the upgrade will be the difference in the old price and the new price. We'll figure out an option for people who've bought InterChange recently. When it's ready, we'll certainly post messages here and everywhere, send press releases to the magazines, send out review copies to reviewers, and send out a newsletter to all registered owners and interested potential customers. If you're interested, or you want to make sure we have your correct address, please send a postcard or letter to Syndesis, N9353 Benson Road, Brooklyn, WI 53521, or FAX (608) 455-1317. Please write or FAX, giving us your address and any product serial numbers. Please do not tie up the phone with endless calls asking when it will be ready. We *do* want to sell you a copy, and we will do our best to find you ASAP if you just give us a hint as to where you are. We're proofing the manual now and doing the final testing. We hope to get it out in a few weeks. We've much improved the translation of surfaces. Where the old InterChange had about seven different textures with colors, we now translate RGB color, RGB reflectivity, RGB filter, diffuse, gloss, specularity, refraction, smoothing, luminous and wireframe attributes, plus surface names. We can't translate bitmaps or image maps, sorry. Anyone out there have a peculiar problem they'd like to solve when it comes to mapping surface attributes from program to program? What other 3D tools would you like to see us develop? Is there a particular operation you'd love to have automated? Some ideas: morphing, re-centering, scaling, rotating, joining, re-coloring, etc. Or, would it be handy if our newsletter sold a few 3D add-ons like Worley's books, tutorial videos, Markoya's surface and texture products, an object disk collection, etc? All the old limits are gone. You can now convert objects much larger than you could ever render in a given amount of memory with any of today's Amiga programs. The old InterChange has a limit of about 10,922 triangles, although that was an unfortunate side-effect we didn't intend to introduce. The new limits are on the order of billions of anything. Does this hold anyone back? When we convert from Imagine, we generate named surfaces for use in programs such as LightWave. We group all the unique collections of settings and make all those faces parts of surfaces. Currently, the surface names are created from the Imagine sub-object name and a computer-generated English color name, for example, "MAMMAL: light orangish brown". Surface names can be up to 64 characters long, but they're often limited by practical concerns such as the length of the string gadgets in LightWave's Modeler, for instance. Some beta testers thought the long, explicit names were a good idea, although others have complained they'd like short and sweet names like "Surface 0", so we may make this an option. When we convert to Imagine, these surfaces become 'groups' within sub-objects, making it very easy for you to re-color groups of faces within Imagine. Unfortunately, we can't take your 'groups' and convert them to surfaces, since two 'groups' can encompass the same face. Yes, we do read and write both LightWave objects and LightWave scenes. This means you can convert an Imagine hierarchical object directly to a LightWave scene, retaining all the hierarchy links and relative positions of objects. Or vice-versa. Not everyone seems to know this, but we've been selling high-end Converters for AutoCAD DXF, Wavefront .obj and Digital Arts .AOB for more than a year and a half. Yes, they cost more than ordinary Amiga-oriented Converters, but so does AutoCAD and Wavefront. If you own one of these high-end converters, you'll get the ICP upgrade and an upgraded high-end Converter for free without doing another thing. If demand dictates, we could develop an InterChange 3D Studio Converter. We're also in a unique position with the TIO system that we created for NewTek's Toaster 2.0. Syndesis developed the 3D Studio, Wavefront, Swivel 3D and AutoCAD DXF import functions for LightWave 2.0, as well as the Macintosh PICT load and save tools. With TIO, you can load 3D data into LightWave. TIO is extensible, meaning we can develop and sell new TIO modules for loading new formats and new data into LightWave. Any requests? Go wild, we'll make more. Yes, we could make an Imagine loader for the Toaster, except we'd need to coalesce an Imagine hierarchy into a single LightWave object. If you used InterChange Plus, you could convert it to a LightWave scene. ## Subject: hey hey hey! Date: Fri, 12 Jun 92 18:46:14 PDT From: Worley@cup.portal.com Hi, kids! Yes, I still exist. :-) Just keeping myself busy. I still read the list, it is just not as convienient to post as often. Work goes on schedule with Essence, the algorithmic texture library. Packaging and docs proceed on schedule, looks like it will be shipping the first week of July, pretty close to my previous prediction. The number of textures has increased to 65 (sixty five!), though. In response to a couple of questions, indeed, there ARE fractal bumps in Essence. This allows you to make asteroids out of perfect spheres, make rough stone, or just add variation to a surface. The noise is EXTREMELY versatile: it is amazing what hoops the fractal textures will loop through. Allen Hastings suggested a trick with fractal bumps to make a Romulan cloaking effect: you make a transparent lens, and add fractal bumps. When light refracts through the lens, it is distorted by the bumps. You change the character of the bumps in time to make the distortion shimmer, and simultaneously decrease the amplitude until there's no more distortion. Looks WAY cool! Clouds? Absolutely! That's perhaps the easiest trick to do with fractal transparency. Flames and smoke are harder, but possible. The extra textures that were added just last week are a whole suite of TRANSITIONS. Impulse's "Linear" is very useful since you can make gradients or layers on an object, and animated, it can be cool for transitions as it flies across the object. Anyway, I've added a smoother version of linear (so you can create subter transitions) as well as a radial and cylindrical version. The cool part is there are versions that use fractal noise to "blur" the transition. Instead of being a simple gradiation, the noise blurs the transition so you get an effect like fire or smoke. By varying the character of the noise, you can make something like mold encroaching over your object. Of course, it is completely animatable: the noise will eddy and swirl in time. Using the cylindrical, fractal noise based, transition, you can apply it to a disk and form a sun with an animated, firy corona. Fractal based rings can make Saturn's rings, or applied to a sphere, you can make neat bands of color like Jupiter's surface. All animated, of course. Oh, and a fractal spiral, too. Great for galaxies, or maybe simulating an LSD nightmare... Lots of other fun textures too: a "flatten" texture that is really a simple hack: it shades your object like it was made out of flattened cardboard. Not generally useful, but it is an interesting optical effect. ----- Anyway, sorry to make all you guys drool... I'm proud of these things and can't wait to get them on the market. I'll post just before they are out: people who read this list will have FIRST CRACK at them. Keep on rendering! -Steve worley@cup.portal.com ## Subject: Re: video printer Date: Sat, 13 Jun 92 13:59:00 CDT From: "Scott Jones (Dr. Jones)" > > I am wondering how's the quality ( color & resolution ) of the video printer > compare w/ ...say a color Inkjet or a color Postscript ?? > > ... > > To give you some idea of the res and color of the pict that I had taken of me on the Panasonic video printer, I will scan the pict in at 300 dpi and upload it as a tga file. If someone could convert this to IFF24 I would appreciate it (as I dont have the capabilities yet :-)) The picts that this thing printed out where about 4" x 5" (no bigger) and the color looked as good as any 24bit I have seen yet. When I asked the rep about the resolution he told me that it all depended on the resolution going in, but never did really say what it was capable of.. The pict of me was taken off from a home cam corder, so I would guess a res of 200 lines or so.. Scott.. ## Date: Sun, 14 Jun 92 16:37:58 EDT From: amallory@discover.wright.edu (Aragorn J Mallory) I bought Lissa to produce objects for both extruding objects along paths and locking the Imagine camera to it as well for controlling its motion. I have no trouble using the resulting shapes to extrude objects along, but I can't get the camera to track them. I'm saving out the Lissa files as Generate/Object closed path, but Imagine says that they aren't paths. I don't know whether I'm using Lissa improperly, or whether I haven't learned how to have Imagine's camera use any paths other than those created from within Imagine. Any ideas? Aragorn. I Imagine therefor I am! ## Subject: RCS 040 board Comments Date: Sun, 14 Jun 92 20:13:53 -0400 From: Mark Visconti I upgraded my 2000 w/2620 to an RCS 040 board through RCS's "User's Group" deal. I am very satisfied with the 040 board and feel that others should consider taking advantage of their offer (ends June 31, 1992). The board arrived about two to three weeks after I had mailed RCS my certified check. Upon receiving the board, I skimmed the manual. Finding nothing different than installing the A2620 (insert board in coprocessor slot), I popped the puppy in. BTW, I have a 2000 rev 4.3 motherboard and a GVP Series II w/105M Quantum(rev 4.5 of GVP FastROM). I'm running WB2.04. I had some minor problems with the GVP controller (I need to solder a 1K resistor at U605 from pin 11 to 20 to be able to access RAM on the GVP board. >From what I understand, this is a common problem with 4.3 motherboards and accelerator cards), but eventually (30 minutes or less) got the board up and running. It is very hard to describe the difference between an 020 running at 16 MHz and the 040 running at 28MHz. Phenomenal comes to mind. I ran some basic speed tests (AIBB and SysInfo) and later did some rendering comparisons against a friend's 3000. The difference was enough that my friend began considering selling his 3000 :-). Basically, we saw about a 3 times speed increase for the 040 over the 3000 (actually a little more and it varied of course). The only other problem I have had is with some software corrupting memory when it crashes. I get a red screen on reboot (you know, gray, gray, ..., and a red in there) and I have to power down or I'll crash continually. This doesn't happen all the time, just enough to be slightly annoying. Anyone know the cause of this or a fix so that I don't need a power down ? Some Game software doesn't particular care to run in 040 mode, but I can always go back to 68000 mode if I really want to play (there is a hardware switch). Playing with the caches and copyback mode will also allow some software to function properly with the 040. I think the RCS offer has been extended to the end of June (June 31,1992). The price is $995 with 0 meg of memory. RCS Management is selling 4 megs for $175 (1x8 SIMMs - 70ns I think). The board will take 4x9's, but mine didn't like it when I mixed the 4x9's (70ns) with 1x8's (80ns). The manual suggestedd that this might be the case, so I can't complain. If you are doing heavy math intensive stuff, this board is perfect. The price/performance ratio has gotta be one of the best you can find for the Amiga. (Oh, the 3000 that I ran speed tests against was a 25MHz 3000 not a 16MHz one) If you have any questions about the RCS board, feel free to mail me. I'll be happy to try and answer your questions. -- Mark Visconti --------------------------- visconti@cis.ohio-state.edu b24a!uunet!b24a!mav!mark@ingr.com All of the above opinions are my own. I am not affiliated with RCS Management in any way, shape, or form. I just own a Fusion-Forty board. ## Subject: Re: RCS 040 board Comments Date: Sun, 14 Jun 92 18:47:53 PDT From: tucker@cs.unr.edu (Aaron Tucker) > and running. It is very hard to describe the difference between an 020 > running at 16 MHz and the 040 running at 28MHz. Phenomenal comes to mind. > I ran some basic speed tests (AIBB and SysInfo) and later did some rendering > comparisons against a friend's 3000. The difference was enough that my friend > began considering selling his 3000 :-). Basically, we saw about a 3 times > speed increase for the 040 over the 3000 (actually a little more and it varied > of course). I also received the user group special and am very impressed with it. Although there are some features pertaining to the software that are not descrived in the manual,I found the manual fairly adequate. The tests that I ran found my 4.5rev Amiga2000 at 1.2x faster than an A3000 with a PP&S '040. The accelerator installed very easily into my machine and the installation software performed flawlessly. I recommend having WB2.0 already installed in your system. The only thing that I found that was temporarily annoying was a command in the AREXX script that gets executed at startup was not directed to NIL:, thereby causing a ResetWB message requestor to appear at bootup. Once redirected, I have not even had a hiccup since then. I use an IVS GrandSlam Controller that I am most happy with. The performance is remarkable. > The only other problem I have had is with some software corrupting memory > when it crashes. I get a red screen on reboot (you know, gray, gray, ..., and > a red in there) and I have to power down or I'll crash continually. This > doesn't happen all the time, just enough to be slightly annoying. Anyone > know the cause of this or a fix so that I don't need a power down ? > Some Game software doesn't particular care to run in 040 mode, but I can > always go back to 68000 mode if I really want to play (there is a hardware > switch). Playing with the caches and copyback mode will also allow some > software to function properly with the 040. I have not had any problems with any software that I use. I have to turn off copyback on a couple of packages...but most are behaving well. > I think the RCS offer has been extended to the end of June (June 31,1992). > The price is $995 with 0 meg of memory. RCS Management is selling 4 megs for > $175 (1x8 SIMMs - 70ns I think). The board will take 4x9's, but mine didn't > like it when I mixed the 4x9's (70ns) with 1x8's (80ns). The manual suggestedd > that this might be the case, so I can't complain. > If you are doing heavy math intensive stuff, this board is perfect. The > price/performance ratio has gotta be one of the best you can find for the Amiga. > (Oh, the 3000 that I ran speed tests against was a 25MHz 3000 not a 16MHz one) > > If you have any questions about the RCS board, feel free to mail me. I'll be > happy to try and answer your questions. > I purchased the RAM locally for $600 for 16MB. My dealer also carries the RCS Fusion Forty for $995 for user group members. The dealer is only doing it as a service for RCS. Check to see if your local dealer does the same. > -- Mark Visconti Juan Trevino tucker@mammoth.cs.unr.edu I am not affiliated with any company mentioned above. I only use thier products as a satisfied customer. ## Subject: video printer Date: Thu, 11 Jun 92 21:13:37 PDT From: kevink@ced.berkeley.edu (Kevin Kodama) re: resolution/quality of video printers- well, the Sony "mavigraph" UP-5000W i am trying out has an ink color ribbon, and uses print paper-the final image looks like a polaroid photo- the image is a VIDEO image, dependent on the video signal (i am using composite, from the Toaster, but the printer has inputs for RGB too) for final quality. Color Postscript is dependent on the output device resolution, which will probably allow *very* high quality images with the right device, unlimited by the screen view. The output is more photograph like (in terms of texture, not quality) as opposed to "paper printed" like. did this make any sense ? :) Actually, the most interesting technology i have seen is the subliminal dye or continuous tone printers, from Canon, i.e. Some come very close to photographic (quality, not just texture :) ) I have seen setups where a Macintosh is hooked up to a Canon C500 laser color copier, and outputting computer images ! very nice idea ! kevink kevink@ced.berkeley.edu ## Subject: Need help sizing objects in STAGE editor Date: Mon, 15 Jun 92 10:47:56 -0500 From: pjfoley@sage.cc.purdue.edu (PJ Foley) I am having problems sizing a particular object in the stage editor (a simple 2-face plane). If I rotate this object 90 degrees on world Z (which is still local Z), then scale it manually along the world Y axis, I have no problem. If I DO NOT rotate this object, then scale it along local or world Z, the WHOOPS! Y--^ object will return back to its original size as soon as I leave or change frame number. I have tried using the "Size Bar" menu selection and several other things. I do not have the action editor morphing the size at all, I just have a first-frame size bar. Keep in mind, even frame one has the original size as soon as I leave the frame and come back. This is very frustrating, and I would appreciate any help or ideas I can get as soon as possible. Thanks in advance!!! PJ Foley Kinetic Dreams "I Imagine, therefour I iz." ## Subject: RE: need help sizing objects in STAGE editor Date: Mon, 15 Jun 92 13:09:49 -0700 From: Jeff Walkup pjfoley@sage.cc.purdue.edu (PJ Foley) wrote: > I am having problems sizing a particular object in the stage editor > (a simple 2-face plane). If I rotate this object 90 degrees on > world Z (which is still local Z), then scale it manually along the > world Y axis, I have no problem. If I DO NOT rotate this object, > then scale it along local or world [Y], the object will return back > to its original size as soon as I leave or change frame number. If I follow this correctly, you are trying to size a flat plane, which has NO Y dimension. I assume this isn't really what you meant (?) Perhaps you could clarify, how is this plane oriented before you try to scale/rotate it? In which frame number are you trying to do the scaling? If you are scaling it in frame 30 (for example), and then setting a size bar for that frame, it *should* still be its original size on frame 1. That's the way it's supposed to work. You have just told Imagine to scale the plane from it's original size in frame 1, to the size you set in frame 30, tweening during frames 2 thru 29. Don't forget to set a size AND alignment bar, if you're rotating it as well. Otherwise, Imagine will probably try to scale the flat plane along the world Y, which will do nothing (assuming the plane is oriented the 'default' way, like after you just 'added' it.) | // Jeff Walkup \\ | | \\// Scientific Artist / Artistic Scientist \\// | |-"The most incomprehensible thing about the universe is that it is | | comprehensible." -- A. Einstein | |-----"The universe is not only queerer than we imagine, but it is | | queerer than we can imagine." -- J.B.S. Haldane | |---------- "Three quarks for Muster Mark!" -- James Joyce | ## Subject: Some Effects and Questions... Date: Mon, 15 Jun 92 16:07:04 PDT From: Shadowmar@cup.portal.com Hey. I have a few questions about some effects I was thinking of in Imagine 2.0. I've only had 2.0 for a few days and haven't played around with it alot like I should have, but I will ask these questions anyway. 1) I managed to see the TERMINATOR 2 preview of a videotape of TOTAL RECALL, where the Terminator (Ah-nold) is put together and fleshed. There's a part where a laser beam scans the robot as a horizontal blue line that rises from his feet to his head. It's a cool effect (similar to the beginning of Aliens) and I was wondering how it could be achieved without actually getting a laser, fog machines, and so on. My inital guess for the SIMPLE effect (just a horizontal light that rises across an object) was to have a shadow casting blue Conical or Cylindrical light behind a plane with a narrow slit in it. When traced, only the thin beam would emerge and illuminate a narrow line across whatever was on the other side of the plane. For the FULL (read DIFFICULT) effect, where the beam is actually visible, as if it were passing through smoke or dust, I had considered animating a transparency map on a fog object so it would appear to "swirl" and yet you could still see through it. I guess Steve Worley's Essense package would have textures that would make the swirling a snap, but I dont know if I can wait for it. :) Are there any textures now that would do this? (waves, camo-animated, distrub?) And what happens if you make a FOG object BRIGHT? 2) Okay, neat effect #2 isn't really an effect. Does anyone have the specs for a "letterboxed" imagine anim? What would be the dimensions, and aspect ratios for HAM lores and interlaced? Would DPaint 4.1 and/or Spectracolor load this size anim? 3) Okay, this was in the Toaster 2.0 video. When the first spaceship is shown lifting off between the trees, it's lights come between the trees and you get that "beams of light in clouds" effect. I HAVE NO IDEA HOW THIS WAS DONE. If anyone knows, please tell me. Thanks. Thank you for your assistance. Paul J. Furio Shadowmar@cup.portal.com Shadowmar Grafix - The Next Generation In Computer Animations ## Subject: RE: need help sizing objects in STAGE editor Date: Mon, 15 Jun 92 18:59:56 -0500 From: pjfoley@sage.cc.purdue.edu (PJ Foley) Believe it or not, my planes have a Y axis, the way I made them. (Suppose that was silly to make them that way, but I did) These planes are visually there, in scaled form, until I change frames. I am aware of the position of the Size bar and its behavior, and that is definately not the problem. This is a very strange unexplainable problem because objects that I first rotate 90 degrees on Z keep their modified scaling. I'm still working on it. I'll let you know if I find a solution. PJ ## Subject: Thanks everyone; and the amazing solution! Date: Mon, 15 Jun 92 19:07:47 -0500 From: pjfoley@sage.cc.purdue.edu (PJ Foley) Thanks to everyone who offered help for my problem with sizing a plane in the Stage Editor. Here is what's going on: I have to scale by Local Axis reference. For some reason scaling by the World Axis will only work if the X,Y,&Z are by the same amount. This is strange, I wonder why it is this way??? Thanks, PJ Foley ## Subject: Re: Some Effects and Questions... Date: Mon, 15 Jun 92 20:48:40 -0400 From: mbc@po.cwru.edu (Michael B. Comet) Well, I'm not asure if I know all the answers, but I'll take a guess...if anone else has any ideas about this stuff please post to the lsit as I too would like to hear some other opinions. > >Hey. I have a few questions about some effects I was thinking of in Imagine >2.0. I've only had 2.0 for a few days and haven't played around with it >alot like I should have, but I will ask these questions anyway. > 1) I managed to see the TERMINATOR 2 preview of a videotape of TOTAL >RECALL, where the Terminator (Ah-nold) is put together and fleshed. There's >a part where a laser beam scans the robot as a horizontal blue line that >rises from his feet to his head. It's a cool effect (similar to the >beginning of Aliens) and I was wondering how it could be achieved without >actually getting a laser, fog machines, and so on. > My inital guess for the SIMPLE effect (just a horizontal light that rises >across an object) was to have a shadow casting blue Conical or Cylindrical >light behind a plane with a narrow slit in it. When traced, only the thin >beam would emerge and illuminate a narrow line across whatever was on the >other side of the plane. > For the FULL (read DIFFICULT) effect, where the beam is actually visible, >as if it were passing through smoke or dust, I had considered animating a >transparency map on a fog object so it would appear to "swirl" and yet you >could still see through it. I guess Steve Worley's Essense package would >have textures that would make the swirling a snap, but I dont know if I can >wait for it. :) Are there any textures now that would do this? (waves, >camo-animated, distrub?) And what happens if you make a FOG object BRIGHT? Yes, my guess would be that you would need to trace a plane with a slit and blue light shining through it. You could make an object in the detail editor that was the plane with a slit, and an axis away from it with a cylindrical blue light setting that casted shadows. For the fog, you could just turn on global fog, but for the swirling you might try a fog object (NOT BRIGHT) with a texture map such as pastella morphing over time. > 2) Okay, neat effect #2 isn't really an effect. Does anyone have the >specs for a "letterboxed" imagine anim? What would be the dimensions, and >aspect ratios for HAM lores and interlaced? Would DPaint 4.1 and/or >Spectracolor load this size anim? I don't have these, but for those using a firecracker I have a Widescreen 768 and a Widescreen 1024 that i use with these settings: Widescreen 768 = 768x330 xAspect=6 yAspect=7 HIRES | LACE Widescreen 1024= 1024x330 xAspect=9 yAspect=14 HIRES | LACE > 3) Okay, this was in the Toaster 2.0 video. When the first spaceship is >shown lifting off between the trees, it's lights come between the trees and >you get that "beams of light in clouds" effect. I HAVE NO IDEA HOW THIS WAS >DONE. If anyone knows, please tell me. Thanks. > I saw this and man was it an awesome effect. The trees looked real and I was questioning if the whole thing wasn't ray traced, but in stead was some kind of genlocking trick. Anyways, you could duplicate this with just global fog, and moving your ship and light while tracing with shadows. When your light move and change in intensity, that should produce the line coming through the trees. >Thank you for your assistance. > Paul J. Furio > Shadowmar@cup.portal.com > Shadowmar Grafix - The Next Generation In Computer Animations > Michael Comet mbc@po.CWRU.Edu ## Subject: PP&S'040 and SCRAM ... Date: Mon, 15 Jun 92 19:19:31 CST From: bugs009@bugs.mty.itesm.mx (Isaac Guajardo Leal) First of all this list is a Gold Mine, thanks to all involved to keep it running and hope it will for a looonnnggg time ... This is actualy my second post here and it's a question, hope that someone know about it ... I have an A3000/25 with a Progressive 040 board to keep Imagine blazzzing ... but ... when I installed the 040 board it came with one Page Mode ZIP to keep the A3000 from running in Static Column mode due to a bug (?) on the Super DMAC and Denise chips which don't work properly with a 040 and SCRAMs ... a note from PP&S is that as soon as the NEW (?) chips are released by C= I just have to replace the original SCRAM and voila Static Colum mode and a little more performance (hope!). Now the question is, are those chips out yet ? Do someone have this board (any 040 board?) and left the SCRAMs without problems on the long run ? Any comments would be appreciated ! Also this is for Steve W. ... I WANT ESSCENCE (?) TOOOOOO !!! Isaac (Psycho) Guajardo bugs009@bugs.mty.itesm.mx "Excuse my english, it's not my natural lenguage" PD: From above ... yes, I also have to install the new chips 8-) before replacing the SCRAM ! 8-| ## Subject: RE: need help sizing objects in STAGE editor Date: Mon, 15 Jun 92 19:11:42 MDT From: koren%hpmoria.fc.hp.com%hpfcla.fc.hp.com@hpfcla.fc.hp.com (Steve Koren) > I am aware of the position of the Size bar and its behavior, and that is > definately not the problem. This is a very strange unexplainable problem > because objects that I first rotate 90 degrees on Z keep their modified > scaling. For what it's worth, I see the same problem as PJ does. If I go into the stage editor, and resize an object, it stays that way as long as I'm still in the stage editor. But if I leave and re-enter (after saving), the object will spring back to its original size. It is _very_ annoying, because I used to use this feature a lot in 1.1. It seems to have broken in 2.0 (along with several other things). BTW, regarding the message I sent around about system crashes with Imagine 2.0, I called Impulse about it. They blamed it on my 68040 card - but PP&S blames it on Imagine. In the meantime, I am stuck with a very expensive piece of s/w which crashes my machine every 5 minutes. :-( I tend to believe PP&S, because I have not seen 68040 related problems with _any_ other application or PD software. In any case, I'm getting a might unhappy - it makes Imagine dratted near unusable for even still frame rendering, and completely unusuable for creating animations (since I get at most 3 or 4 frames before a crash). (Impluse's attitude for tech support doesn't come across very well either. Their attitude was "users don't understand our software anyway, so what good does it do for us to try to help?" The tech support guy said that to me in almost that many words. He wasn't talking about me specifically, but it still comes across as very unprofessional.) - steve ## Subject: Fracture and merge?? Date: Mon, 15 Jun 92 22:31:26 EDT From: joec@cellar.org Hello Imagineers, I am sure this question has been answered numerous times but since I have been a member of the list I have never seen it. What do the commands fracture and merge do in the detail editor? I have been using the split command alot lately and was wondering if those two mystery commands had something to do with Split. Also on a side note. Has anyone ever played with Vertex? I have found it to be a fairly powerfull modeller. Just curious to know what everyone else thinks of it. For example how does it compare to LW modeller? I have never used it but I hear it is fairly easy. Ciao! Joe Cotellese ## Subject: Glow effect Date: Mon, 15 Jun 92 23:47:21 EDT From: Steve J. Lombardi First off many thanks to dave for getting me back on this list. It seems there were some troubles with my address. and apologies to all who suffered the wrath of my many bounces. Here's a qustion thats probably asked often. How can I create a _glow_ in Imagine. Is it some kind of fog trick? As a point of reference, I'm trying to create the glow seen around the top of the pyramid as seen on the back of a dollar bill. I thought about taking a concentric copy of the pyramid top, making it a fog object and sending light at it. This might create a haze as opposed to the desired glow. It might also be nice to have the glow _shimmer_. Is this possible via a morphing texture or something??. thanks in advance. Steve Lombardi stlombo@eos.acm.rpi.edu ## Subject: sunsets Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1992 19:35:00 -0400 From: troy%torsqnt!courier@uunet.uu.net (Troy Hacker) Hi all, I'm trying to get a realistic sunset. My scene contains a ship on the ocean at sunset. The lighting in the scene is fine. Everything looks real except for the sun. The sun is a sphere and has the attribute of a light source. This gave me a orange ball that was shaded on one side. I tried changing the attribute to bright which corrected the shading problem, but the one thing that still remains is that the sun has very hard edges. I've tried to use fog to soften them but no such luck. Any ideas??? Thanks, Troy ## Subject: Questions Date: Tue, 16 Jun 92 00:06:09 PST From: kennys@terapin.com (Kenny Sequeira) Here are a few questions I have about Imagine 2.0. I'm Having trouble with the brick texture on a infinite plane. The bricks never seem to ome out correctly especially at the horzion. I can get the texture to work ok if I use a plane of a set size. If I have a set of objects grouped together and use the split Function on any object Imagine will not allow me to pick most of the objects they just sit there and it does not mater what pick mode your in. To get around this before I do a split on any object I always un-group. This not a big problem just a minor inconvenience. Is it a copyright violation to use Imagine screen shots in a program or tutioral. just wondering. One last questin, why can you lock the pallete in Imagine's RGBN format but not in IFF format when creating anims. Thanks kennys@terapin.com ## Subject: Re: Some Effects and Questions... Date: Tue, 16 Jun 92 09:40:08 EDT From: Mark Thompson > 3) Okay, this was in the Toaster 2.0 video. When the first spaceship is > shown lifting off between the trees, it's lights come between the trees and > you get that "beams of light in clouds" effect. I HAVE NO IDEA HOW THIS WAS > DONE. If anyone knows, please tell me. Thanks. This is one of several features that are completely unique to LightWave. LightWave allows complete control over object edge transparency. This allows very simple and speedy simulation of glows and many other effects. Besides light beams it can be used for rocket exhausts, flames, neon, planetary atmosphere, etc, etc. |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| | ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER | | --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics | | ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect | | Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 & General Nuisance | | | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ## Subject: Re: Fracture and merge?? Date: Tue, 16 Jun 92 10:44:15 -0400 From: Udo K Schuermann joec@cellar.org asks: > What do the commands fracture and merge do in the detail editor? I have > been using the split command alot lately and was wondering if those two > mystery commands had something to do with Split. FRACTURE inserts a new point midway between the end-points of an edge. It should also properly add faces. This allows you to increase the complexity of objects by giving you more points to create detail with. ex: Select several edges and then FRACTURE them. MERGE removes duplicate points and edges that resulted from JOIN or SPLIT. Processing complex objects requires MUCH MUCH longer than simpler ones because the algorithm is of O(n^2) complexity. ._. Udo Schuermann "If I went around calling myself emperor just because ( ) walrus@wam.umd.edu some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd Seeking virtual memory put me away!" -- Monty Python's "Holy Grail" ## Subject: Re: Some Effects and Questions... Date: Tue, 16 Jun 92 10:14:16 -0500 From: pjfoley@sage.cc.purdue.edu (PJ Foley) I can help you with one thing: Letterbox settings. I use the same widescreen proportions as T2 used. I found the actual resolution in a magazine called NewMedia (well, it was the resolution used for the scene where LA gets nuked. They used a *gulp* MacIntosh for some of the effects there). I divided the resolution by 2 so it would fit on an Amiga screen (perfectly), and ended up with 736x339; use the same aspect ratio as a High-res interlace screen, 6:7(???). DPaint loads these fine, just pull the screen down so it's centered, and you're ready to go! I use this with DCTV, and get great results. The anim also speeds up because less of the screen is being updated (aprox 2/3). Hope this helps! PJ Kinetic Dreams ## Subject: Re: Fracture and merge?? Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1992 08:56:44 -0400 From: John J Humpal joec@cellar.org writes: > > Hello Imagineers, > > What do the commands fracture and merge do in the detail editor? I have > been using the split command alot lately and was wondering if those two > mystery commands had something to do with Split. > Merge will join multiple points/edges that share the same space into a single point/edge. It is useful when you have joined objects which have common points or edges. Fracture operates on edges and faces. It will split a single edge into 2 edges, a single face into 4 faces. Great for adding detail. Play with them a little to get a feel for them. -John John J. Humpal -- johnh@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu -- short .sig, std. disclaimer ## Subject: Re: Some Effects and Questions... Date: Tue, 16 Jun 92 15:45:13 CST From: linton@bbs.draco.bison.mb.ca (Michael Linton) > > > Well, I'm not asure if I know all the answers, but I'll take a > guess...if anone else has any ideas about this stuff please post to the > lsit as I too would like to hear some other opinions. > > > Michael Comet > mbc@po.CWRU.Edu The way I made a flat laser beam scan something, was to make a flat plane, and aply the fog effect to it. Make the plane have some thinkness, not much, and make it a light, and add the pastella texture to the whole thing. It worked pretty good to (at least in HAM). I don't think making a small slit in a plane with a blue light behind it will work, but I could be wrong. TTYSS. -- linton@bbs.draco.bison.mb.ca (Michael Linton) The Draco Unix System, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada ## Subject: marble Date: Thu, 18 Jun 92 8:44:18 EDT From: Steve J. Lombardi Howdy, Does anyone know of a good set of attributes for creating Marble? I have played around with variations of the wood texture but can''t get the right look for marble. As an alternative I suppose I could map a brush but wanted to avoid this for morphing's sake. Is there an ftp site with a good slab of marble around? As I was writing this I just thought about layering a couple of wood textures on the same object to randomize the pattern a bit. This may help, but any other input is appreciated. thanks. -- Steve Lombardi stlombo@acm.eos.rpi.edu ## Subject: SpaceStation on hubcap Date: Thu, 18 Jun 92 16:48:47 MET DST From: Markus Stipp Hello ! I'm searching for a spacestation for Imagine. I found the space_station.readme file on hubcap.clemson.edu but the object wasn't there. Can please somebody reupload it ? Or are there any other ftp-sites where this object can be found ? Thank you... -- ...Markus Stipp !! (corwin@uni-paderborn.de) ## Subject: Suggestions for Imagine 3.0 Date: Thu, 18 Jun 92 17:31:56 MET DST From: Markus Stipp Hi, after working a while with Imagine 2.0 I have found a few things I'm missing in this great program. I will send this msg via smail to Impulse, too. Global things: -------------- - New "Scanline with Shadows" mode. This would be very nice because in most cases scanline-pictures are only missing shadows to be "perfect" - DCTV support with a 3- and 4-bit switch. - An ARexx-Interface would be nice. With this it would be possible to control all functions of Imagine by external programs. - Get rid of these awful shadowed menues and make the 3D-look more Style-Guide conform. - In all 3D-Editors it would be nice if you could align the 3 views to an objects axis and not only to the world axis like now. This would make it much easier to position objects in the stage-editor exactly. - Make the animations Time-relative and let the user choose how many frames the animations should take for a period of time. So it's easier to stretch an animation over more or less pictures. Detail-Editor: -------------- - Bug: Checkmark in "Grid Size"-menu. This is only looking strange. - Different grid sizes for all axes. This means I want to make the grid 20 in x-direction, 30 in y-direction and 15 in z-direction. - Material Database. I want to create materials and assing them later to the objects. If I have 20 objects with the same material and I want to change it I only have to change the material once. In Imagine 2.0 I have to change the attributes for all 20 objects. - Material Mapping. With the material database material mapping would be possible. Just create a 16 color Image and assign a material to each color. Now map this material-map on an object and you can create incredible effects (like bright windows on a spaceship etc.). - Pick objects with same material function - Better Skin-function. It should be possible to create a skin with objects that don't have the same number of points. - Create spline-paths out of simple line-objects. Just add an axis, add lines with add lines mode and select "Object to path" function and ready is the spline-path. I think this would be much easier for complex paths than editing a path with its axes. - Magnetism in Pick Points-mode. This means that only points which are picked are modified with magnetism. The first picked point should be the drag-point. - New Split-function. This new function should not remove any faces in the splitted object but should copy the points which are missing for this faces. The current split function is IMHO unuseful because it "trashes" the object. - PLEASE give us a cube primitive !!!! Cycle Editor: ------------- - draw the wireframe of the objects on keypress in all 3 views. - Better method to select points in the cycle editor. It would be nice if the first click on one object would only activate it and then a keypress activates the mode (pivot, move etc.). - optional spline-interpolation between keyframes Stage Editor: ------------- - Pick All function ! - optional Spline-interpolation in all tweenings. - Pick Objects-mode. Just for modifying grouped objects even in the stage editor. Action Editor: -------------- - A possibility to move Objects on their "time-axis" Project Editor: --------------- - Put antialias-threshold and resolve-depth into the project editor and use the values from the preferences only as default-values for each project. - A possibility to start the rendering from CLI ! - AnimOPT5 player. Ok, so much for now. I hope a few features of the above would be implemented in the next Imagine version. -- ...Markus Stipp !! (corwin@uni-paderborn.de) ## Subject: repeat altitude maps Date: Thu, 18 Jun 92 10:49:13 CST From: Jeff Niebergall I am having trouble getting an altitude map to repeat properly. The object is a castle wall with stonework which I have a repeatable color map that works perfectly. The problem is if I convert the same colormap to a 16 color b/w (in AdPro or IMageMaster)and then use it as an altitude map I get seam lines in the repeat. Could it be that the grey scale conversion is changing the values enough that the edges no longer match up? I tried loading the altitude map as a brush in DPaint and repeating it and there it looks perfect. Any ideas what the problem is? Thanks, Jeff jnieber@unibase.unibase.sk.ca -- ## Subject: Imagine 3.0 (!) suggestions Date: Thu, 18 Jun 92 14:50:46 -0700 From: Jeff Walkup > - DCTV support with a 3- and 4-bit switch. Hear hear! This is crucial. Imagine 2.0 has DCTV support, but I still end up using ADAM to convert the frames to 3-plane, and pack them into an ANIM5. > - Get rid of these awful shadowed menues and make the 3D-look > more Style-Guide conform. The shading on the menus is O.K, not too bad. Conforming to the style-guide wouldn't do much for me, save using [RETURN] to select "OK" on some requesters. Of course, the whole menu interface could stand to be totally redone. They should just organize it better, group similar functions together. Perhaps they could even have Imagine intelligently remove menu items that I have assigned to gadgets or F-keys with the Preferences editor. That would reduce the clutter in a good way. > - Better Skin-function. It should be possible to create a skin with > objects that don't have the same number of points. Ditto that. I also want *morphing* with objects without the same number of points!!!! > - New Split-function. This new function should not remove > any faces in the splitted object ... Hear hear! > - PLEASE give us a cube primitive !!!! OK, here ya go: begin 777 RAM:Cube.lha M&ADM;&@U+0L! !V @ ;G;2& !$-U8F4>PP#J9'K9IK2OTV !4=LZ5H#S M'674 ?]N,%ZVP'F)N(SX2WP.7V_ *=S!9FC?W)6FW-K+V_%I5XB(?N?QV\?BM) M^$WPQH:[G0G^@G?]0L8"+RKL!YMT9Y-X+1OAI'X:1^&D?D.NKVA?>0WE_%ER M& =93K3L<0D(Y268GD/LI9S%G,7LA]E*9BF'LEBJ<:C087'D<9FY!WCL.RI3 M]@[3LR5?:.X[.E?W&5H(XS&[!X'=PVTWVL2BO>]E=EJ#..8J[,;5T^>8Z;6N end Good 'nuff? > - optional spline-interpolation in all tweenings. This is what Imagine *desperately* needs! I want to be able to set keyframes (in Stage or Cycle) and have Imagine apply spline-based motion interpolation to it. "Just like Lightwave." > Action Editor: > -------------- > > - A possibility to move Objects on their "time-axis" I think the whole Action editor needs work. We should be able to cut&paste sections, as well as grab the end/begin points of the time-bars and drag them. We all have mice attached to our Amigas, right? There are many things Impulse got right with Imagine, and many things that need work. ----------- // Jeff Walkup Graphics/Animation Designer \\// "Imagination is more important than knowledge" - A. Einstein ## Subject: repeating Altitude Maps Date: Thu, 18 Jun 92 11:59:36 PDT From: Worley@cup.portal.com Jeff Niebergall asks why he gets seams when he repeats altitude maps. The answer is that it is a bug in Imagine. It's an understandable one, though. Basically, when Imagine wants to apply the altitude map, it has to take a DIRIVATIVE of the brush intensity. This is just a fancy name for figuring out how steep the intensity gradient is. To do this, it has to look at a pixel's neighbors to see how the intensity is changing. If the pixel intensity is 40, how is the object's surface supposed to tilt? (You can't say!) But if you know the NEXT pixel is 50, you can say "Ah, if it's 40 here and 50 here, it must be at this rate of change." and you can shade away. (actually you need yet another neighbor, too: one for X and one for Y.) So altitude mapping makes Imagine looks at a pixel's neighbors. But what if you're at the very edge of the brushmap? It HAS no neighbor. So you can't figure out the slope, and you can't add the altitude. This is true only for a one-pixel-wide band around the outside. It looks like for TILED maps, Imagine isn't being smart and realizing that a pixel's neighbor is actually "wrapped around" to the other side. Hence, those boundary pixels aren't "altituded" and you see the seam. How to get around this? Well, you can't really. A bigger brushmap will make the seam thinner, and if you make it big enough it might be unnoticable. This is a bad solution, but it's the only one I can think of. (Other than asking Impulse to fix the bug). Hope this helps... -Steve ## Subject: Re: marble Date: Thu, 18 Jun 92 18:58:46 -0400 From: mbc@po.cwru.edu (Michael B. Comet) > >Howdy, >Does anyone know of a good set of attributes for >creating Marble? I have played around with variations >of the wood texture but can''t get the right look for marble. > I would wait until these new ESSENCE textures come out. Until then getting marble out of the wood texture proably won't work. Or if you do, probably won't look that great. >As an alternative I suppose I could map a brush but wanted >to avoid this for morphing's sake. Is there an ftp site >with a good slab of marble around? > I have uploaded several wrap (IFF) to hubcap.clemson.edu . I think they are in the brushmaps directory under Imagine. There are both 24 bit and HAM versions. The fact is, you can use either, but if you are limited in ram, or are not doing 24 bit, the ham might save some time and space. > >-- >Steve Lombardi >stlombo@acm.eos.rpi.edu > > Michael Comet mbc@po.CWRU.Edu ## Subject: Imagine rendering engine Date: Thu, 18 Jun 92 13:18:56 EDT From: serge@mars.dgrc.doc.ca (Serge Ah Hee) Good day to all! A couple months back, a friend received a newsletter from Impulse. They briefly mentioned a couple of blurbs about porting the rendering engine onto hardware. Has anybody heard anything about this? I've also been trying to make big anims in DCTV. How can I get optimum speed at full screen size? I'm running on a A3000, 6megs, 52meg Quantum. Getting full video is a bit out of my budget. Hard drive is to slow to play anims while it loads. Any suggestions? ## Subject: Articles from this mailing list Date: Thu, 18 Jun 92 22:31:32 +0200 From: Hannes Heckner Hi fellow-tracers, I want to start a disk-based magazin and wondered if there are any copyrights I must consider when Iublish information given through this mailing list. Any information on this item appreciated. Hannes Just render on and on and on ...... ## Subject: Wishlist for Imagine Date: Thu, 18 Jun 92 22:34:52 +0200 From: Hannes Heckner Hi everybody around the brushmapped sphere called earth :) I read a lot of wishlist and suggestions for Imagine V3.0. How about collecting these important information on a sperate list like imagine_wish or something. This could be a permanent source for the people at Impulse. Any views on this ??? Hannes P.S.: I imagine therefor I am. ## Subject: Re: Articles from this mailing list Date: Thu, 18 Jun 92 18:46:51 PDT From: Sam_Mayday_Malone@cup.portal.com Hannes Heckner writes: >Hi fellow-tracers, > >I want to start a disk-based magazin and wondered if there are >any copyrights I must consider when Iublish information >given through this mailing list. > >Any information on this item appreciated. >Hannes >Just render on and on and on ...... Hannes, as we state in the Imagine Mailing List Guide, all information posted to the Imagine Mailing List is public domain. All that is requested is that you post the origin of the information and that you credit the original poster with the information you quote. If you DID want to help out though ;-) you could include information regarding imagine-request@email.sp.unisys.com subscription address. The more Imagine-ations we have on the List, the more rich all of our knowledge will become. Good luck on your disk magazine. Dave Wickard (612) 456-4725 "'On your deathbed, you will receive dave@flip.sp.unisys.com total consciousness'....so I got Sam_Malone@cup.portal.com that going for me." -Bill Murray ## Subject: Get GREAT resolution from Imagine. Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 17:28:26 EST From: rpearson@neumann.une.oz.au (Hannibal Lecter) Hi, I use Imagine 1.0 (Arrgh!) on an Amiga 3000, I also happen to own a powerful IBM. The IBM has a super VGA card (1 MEG Tseng). How can this help you? Well... If you set Imagine to render to 24-bit, in a resolution of 1024x768 and save the file in IFF-24, convert it to JPEG, null-modem the image to the IBM, unjpeg it to GIF in 1024x768 in 256 colours then BANG! you have an image that looks about 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times better than one in HAM. Cool? Anyone that is more interested, I have written a live-wire transfer from IFF-24 to GIF. If you want it, just mail me. ok? -Ric -Remember when Z80 code had to be assembled with tables instead of using an assembler... Imagine having to code IMAGINE this way :) ## Subject: re:playing large DCTV anims Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 08:33:58 EST From: Adam Benjamin 3 bit planes verses 4 makes a very noticable difference in playback speed also I have been finding out that the program used to playback the animation can really affect the speed as well. (Anyone know what players work the fastest?) It isn't real great but with a good VCR you can play sections of your animation and pause the VCR while you load in the next section. This just requires some planned still sections to your animation so you can make the pause more "seamless". ************************************************************ * Adam Benjamin A.Benjamin@mi04.zds.com * * Christian Animator an353@cleveland.freenet.edu * * Disclaimer: Nothing I say means anything to anyone that * * might take it to mean something I didn't! * ## Subject: Re: repeating Altitude Maps Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 17:05:42 EDT From: Mark Thompson Steve Worley writes: > Basically, when Imagine wants to apply the altitude map, it > has to take a DIRIVATIVE of the brush intensity. ^^^^^^^^^^ Oh, for shame!!! An MIT *Physics* grad mispelling derivative! What has the world come to?! What would SRI think? :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| | ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER | | --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics | | ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect | | Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 & General Nuisance | | | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ## Subject: demo pic Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 13:53:43 PDT From: Worley@cup.portal.com For those of you who asked me for Essence demo pics, I uploaded a simple one to Hubcap.clemson.edu yesterday. It is called "pillars.lzh" and shows off two textures: veined marble and fractal bumps. Looks promising for release in 3 weeks: manual is almost done! :-) 65 textures: Altitude textures Raised square mesh Raised hexagon mesh Diamonddeck nonslip studs Fractal bumps (for everything from asteroids to concrete!) Flatten (cartoon shading) Bricks and Checks Radial and cylindrical checks (Amiga Boing ball!) Cylindrical bricks (wishing wells or walkways) Fractal Noise Turbulent or smooth 1,2,and 4 color versions Over 20 variations! Fully animated for swirling clouds or smoke. Miscellaneous Mandelbrot (infinite detail!) Marble (finally!) Polkadots Fractal tree bark Spirals and swirls (Fractal versions, too) Tilings Hexagons Floortile Stripes Triangles Transitions Linear, band, cylindrical, ring, spherical, shell. Smooth or fractally turbulent versions (animated, of course) Utility Solid color Color swapping Hue rotation Some of these things are a lot more exciting than they sound: the transitions especially. You can make an animated solar corona or Saturn's rings for Jupiter's atmosphere bands with the cylindrical and spherical turbulent textures... :-) Hey, hey, I know, I'm biased. But so what. :-) I'll be sending out propaganda to people in the mail in about a week and a half: if you want some drop me your address. (If you bought my book from me directly, you'll get it anyway... :-) :-) ) List price is $79.95, but there will be a (significant) discount to you guys. Any questions? Fire away. I'll upload some better demo pix to hubcap ASAP. -Steve worley@cup.portal.com Gosh these are fun! :-) ## Subject: A3000+PP&S'040 and SCRAM -> Mistake! Date: Fri, 19 Jun 92 15:27:53 CST From: bugs009@bugs.mty.itesm.mx (Isaac Guajardo Leal) Errors to:nobody@email.sp.unisys.com Regarding the question I made about using Static Column mode in an A3000 with a Progressive 040 board. I mentioned the SuperDMAC and also DENISE by mistake, it should have been RAMSEY which is the one that handles the Static Column mode. What PP&S states is that those two chips, RAMSEY and SuperDMAC, are going to be upgraded by Commodore so the '040 boards can work properly using SCRAMS and Static Column mode enabled. Do someone know if the chips have been upgraded ?, is someone using an A3000 with a PP&S'040 and SCRAMS/Static Column mode enabled ?. Thanks, and sorry for the inconvenience (?) ... Isaac (Psycho) Guajardo bugs009@bugs.mty.itesm.mx "The one who dies with the most toys wins!" (Excuse my english, it's not my natural lenguage) ## Subject: Re: Imagine v.s. Caligari & Flame-objectz Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1992 07:15:20 GMT From: menzies@cam.org (Stephen Menzies) Jeff Walkup writes: >[stuff deleted] >Caligari *does* have a nice interface, which *can* make your >work faster and easier than Imagine. But a few things you >should be aware of: (I just got on this list today, so pardon >me if you've heard this before) Caligari does *not* multitask, >and it does not support 24-bit files (the consumer version >anyway), meaning it does not render in 24-bit, and it does >not support 24-bit texture/image maps. The full-on Broadcast >version *does*, but it's like $2000+, and I think you were >interested in the ~$250 version, right? Caligari2's BRenderer is 32 bit however it does not presently support 24 bit output (DCTV, Ham, Ham-e only). Caligari2 *does* support 24bit /32bit texture/image maps, though. >----------- // >Jeff Walkup Graphics/Animation Designer \\// -stephen -- Stephen Menzies #Internet: menzies@CAM.ORG #Fidonet : Stephen Menzies @ 1:167/265 ## Subject: Steve's book Date: Sat, 20 Jun 92 20:32:08 EDT From: joec@cellar.org Kudos to Mr Worley for his wonderful book on Imagine. I have received it only 4 hours ago and already I have been inspired to new levels of creativity (Probably levels than I have computer!). If Essence is 1/2 as well put together as this book is then we should all consider ourselves very lucky indeed. Thanks, -Joe ## Subject: image mapping Date: Sun, 21 Jun 92 20:15:27 PDT From: kevink@ced.berkeley.edu (Kevin Kodama) i have a question concerning image mapping-in imagine, Lightwave,etc. this may seem like a basic, easy concept, but hey, i just want it to look good :-) if you draw a geometric pattern in Dpaint, i.e. a grid, you can either a. make it look like it is an actual 4x4 grid, b. use the coordinates to make it actually a 4 pixel by 4 pixel grid without it appearing like a square grid on the screen (rectangular pixels, etc...) so how does lightwave, et al, map onto, say, a square plane ? which of the above methods will actually map an accurate representation ? and how does Pixel 3D take a bitmap and convert it correctly, given the "inaccuracy" of the bit map pixels being rectangular and not ssquare ? i know i am just missing something basic and simple, but can someone please explain how i can accurately (very accurately, i am an architect:-) ) use paint programs to design image maps accurately ? thanks in advance... and if i can understand this, then i will reread steves description of the amazing basketball wrap in his book, Understanding Imagine 2.0 (plug!) kevin kevink@ced.berkeley.edu ## Subject: Caligari & 24bit Date: Mon, 22 Jun 92 00:28:44 -0700 From: Jeff Walkup > Caligari2's BRenderer is 32 bit however it does not presently support > 24 bit output (DCTV, Ham, Ham-e only). Caligari2 *does* support 24bit > /32bit texture/image maps, though. > > -stephen I stand corrected. Wonder where I got that idea..... ----------- // Jeff Walkup Graphics/Animation Designer \\// ## Subject: Imagine.3 requests Date: 21 Jun 92 23:36 -0700 From: Andrew Niemann Just to add my two cents worth to Imagine.3 requests : -soft edged lights -soft edged shadows (varying, like the real thing) -editing all parameters in 3d ala Caligari -various shading options, not just phong -radiosity ? andy ## Subject: Re: image mapping Date: Mon, 22 Jun 92 2:32:54 PDT From: tucker@cs.unr.edu (Aaron Tucker) > i know i am just missing something basic and simple, but can someone > please explain how i can accurately (very accurately, i am an architect:-) ) > use paint programs to design image maps accurately ? thanks in advance... > Maybe you should try using Radiance. It is one of the most accurate lighting simulators out there that architects use. There is a Radiance Mailing list available. If interested, post in comp.graphics for the address. > kevin > kevink@ced.berkeley.edu > Juan Trevino tucker@mammoth.cs.unr.edu ## Subject: Re: image mapping Date: Mon, 22 Jun 92 13:14:22 EDT From: Mark Thompson Kevin Kodama writes: > if you draw a geometric pattern in Dpaint, i.e. a grid, you can either > a. make it look like it is an actual 4x4 grid, > b. use the coordinates to make it actually a 4 pixel by 4 pixel grid > without it appearing like a square grid on the screen (rectangular > pixels, etc...) > so how does lightwave, map onto, say, a square plane ? which of the > above methods will actually map an accurate representation ? No matter what you do in DPaint, it is LightWave that will control the actual size/aspect ratio. If you create a DPaint image that is 100 pixels by 100 pixels and use it as a planar LightWave image map, it is the texture size that will determine the pixel mapping. If you specify a texture size of 10 x 10 meters, then every image pixel will equate to a square of 0.1 meters on a side or: texture size / image size = meters/pixel for each axis. Therefore a 1:1 ratio of texture size to image size will produce a square grid. Since the Amiga uses non-square pixels, the LightWave rendering of this square will not likely use the same number of pixels in the X direction as it does in the Y, but it will appear square. |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| | ` ' Mark Thompson CONCURRENT COMPUTER | | --==* RADIANT *==-- mark@westford.ccur.com Principal Graphics | | ' Image ` ...!uunet!masscomp!mark Hardware Architect | | Productions (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829 & General Nuisance | | | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ## Subject: radiance Date: Mon, 22 Jun 92 21:43:57 PDT From: kevink@ced.berkeley.edu (Kevin Kodama) juan trevino writes: >maybe you should try using Radiance... actually, greg ward, the guy who wrote radiance, is up at Berkeley labs, and used to hang around (maybe still does :-))on campus where i currently teach ! radiance is used at Cal somewhat, especially by the lighting guys, but it is not yet a "quick and easy" :-) package for the everyday architect. The results, however can be incredible- kevin kevink@ced.berkeley.edu ## Subject: SeaLife.lha Date: Tue, 23 Jun 92 01:38:23 PDT From: guardian@netcom.com (Andrew Denton) FTP to hubcap.clemson.edu or wwarchive and grab my latest raytrace, Sealife.lha Mail me if you like it!!! Andrew Denton ## Subject: Lighting in Imagine Date: Tue, 23 Jun 92 13:09:47 EST From: Adam Benjamin Well, after about 4 months of learning I feel I know my way around imagine pretty well now (Thank you Mr Worley!) But I still don't really like the results I am getting from the renderer. Even in Trace mode things look... How do I say this... "fake". I am pretty sure this is due to the lighting of the stage. what are typical lighting settings? what type of lights do you use? How many lights? Where do you put them? (Near the camera? etc..) I know different scenes need different lighting, but I feel any input from you wizards will help me out 8-) In case you wonder... By "fake" I mean, flat, lifeless, even toned (sometimes I get one big Specular flash over the whole object!) other times I get very uneven light. Things seem to go from specular highlight to black with no color. Also,... I render to 24 bit and convert to DCTV if that helps.. Thanks... Adam B ## Subject: Re: Lighting in Imagine Date: Tue, 23 Jun 92 13:03:00 -0600 From: cazabon@hercules.cs.uregina.ca (Chuck Cazabon--Film Maker=) I think I know your problem...'flat' objects are because of a lighting problem as you guessed...flatness comes from even illumination from the front. A bright light near your camera will have this effect (much like the lights mounted on top of a TV newscam when they go out for on-the-spot interviews at night...everyone looks flat and washed out). Another reason could be you are not using shadow generation in trace mode... shadows add greatly to the effect of 3-D. If you are using more than one light, make sure they are ALL in shadow mode for maximum effect (this lengthens trace time, though). I would suggest you get a good basic book on photography or filmmaking to learn about the way lights behave in real life...this will help immensely in using Imagine, because the lighting situations are practically identical. In the meantime, a few hints: Basic two-light setup: 1) Your main or key light...make this bright. For a sunny day or well-lit room, use a shadow-casting spherical light, RGB=500,500,500 or so. This should be positioned to one side of the object and in front of it (relative to the camera) if you want to be able to make out the surface of the object. It should also probably be higher than the object (for anything except space scenes, shadows should fall downward from the main light...if they go up, it looks odd). 45 degrees in front of the object and 40 to 60 degrees elevation is a good rule of thumb. 2) Your fill light...spherical, shadowcasting (if you can afford the additional trace times), RGB about 150,150,150 to 200,200,200. This will give you pretty decent fill in your main shadows. If you want the shadows a little more pronounced, drop this light to 100,100,100 or even a little less. Place this one on the opposite side of the object, perhaps 30 to 60 degrees away from the camera. It can be a little in front, a little behind...make sure it is at a different elevation than the key light. 3) Use a SMALL amount of ambient light to fill in the areas not hit by either of the main lights. I use 10,10,10 in all my renderings. If you get a good book, it will go into much more detail than this, detailing advanced 2-light setups, 3, 4, 5, and more lights, and specialty lights like 'kickers' or spots. If you can't find what you need in a local bookstore under photography, try a University or College bookstore, or an art store or photography store. --Chuck Cazabon, cazabon@hercules.uregina.ca * alternate address: cazabon@meena.uregina.ca * In the immortal words of JFK..."I am a jelly donut!" I went to Israel on holiday, and all I got was this lousy gunshot wound. ## Subject: Re: Lighting in Imagine Date: Tue, 23 Jun 92 17:01:32 -0400 From: mbc@po.cwru.edu (Michael B. Comet) > >Well, after about 4 months of learning I feel I know my way around >imagine pretty well now (Thank you Mr Worley!) >But I still don't really like the results I am getting from the >renderer. Even in Trace mode things look... How do I say this... >"fake". I am pretty sure this is due to the lighting of the stage. >what are typical lighting settings? what type of lights do you use? >How many lights? >Where do you put them? (Near the camera? etc..) >I know different scenes need different lighting, but I feel any input >from you wizards will help me out 8-) > >In case you wonder... By "fake" I mean, flat, lifeless, even toned >(sometimes I get one big Specular flash over the whole object!) other >times I get very uneven light. Things seem to go from specular >highlight to black with no color. >Also,... I render to 24 bit and convert to DCTV if that helps.. > >Thanks... >Adam B > > > To help you out I stumbled across this in one of my Dad's video magazines: Magazine: Videomaker June 1992, Volume VI, Number 12. Read Article on Page 46 named "Bright Ideas" by Cliff Roth. Basically, the article describes basic lighting techniques for real world video, but I found it works great in Imagine too! I did a test rendering of a simple chrome sphere on a checkerd ground (yea I know, real original!) 3 different ways, my way with one light, and then adding the way the article said to. There was a BIG improvement in the overall picture quality with the articles method. To sum: Basically there are 3 lights, 1] The Key light - place 45 degress from you subject on both the left/right and up/down axis. (that is 45 degress horizontally off center, and 45 degress vertically off center). should illumnate one side of your subject more than the other side. You may want to use a spotlight type light for this. 2]The Fill Light. Put this light at around half the Key light's intensity. The fill light usually goes about 45 degrees from teh object horizintall and vertically, but on the opposite side of the key light. Should soften dark shadows. 3] The BackLight. Highlights the top of the object enabling highlights on the object, and differentiating between the background and the object. It is placed behind and High above the target, pointin down and slightly forward. It goes on to say that this is normally used for talk shows, news deks, etc....but for other things you need to take other aspects into consideration. For example, if your are trying to get light coming in from a window, and it is set during day time, the Key Light should come in from outside the window. Hope this helps. May want to check out the article. Has some nice diagrams and stuff. Michael Comet mbc@po.CWRU.Edu ## Subject: Re: Sealife.lha Date: Tue, 23 Jun 92 18:55:34 EDT From: amallory@discover.wright.edu (Aragorn J Mallory) guardian@netcom.com writes: FTP to hubcap.clemson.edu or wwarchive and grab my latest raytrace, Sealife.lha Mail me if you like it!!! Andrew Denton Great I went to get it and could not find the picture! Were is it? pub/amiga/incoming/imagine/pics ??? Aragorn. I Imagine, Therefor I am! ---(amallory@discover.wright.edu) ## Subject: SeaLife.lha Date: Tue, 23 Jun 92 01:38:23 PDT From: guardian%netcom.com@mathcs.emory.edu (Andrew Denton) FTP to hubcap.clemson.edu or wwarchive and grab my latest raytrace, Sealife.lha Mail me if you like it!!! Andrew Denton ## Subject: Re: Lighting in Imagine Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 02:18:52 EDT From: bobl@graphics.rent.com (Bob Lindabury, SysAdm) rutgers!hercules.cs.uregina.ca!cazabon (Chuck Cazabon--Film Maker=) writes: > I think I know your problem...'flat' objects are because of a lighting proble > as you guessed...flatness comes from even illumination from the front. A > bright light near your camera will have this effect (much like the lights > mounted on top of a TV newscam when they go out for on-the-spot interviews at > night...everyone looks flat and washed out). Lighting is an art in itself. It will probably take the typical user another year or 2 just to figure out lighting of still scenes much less animated scenes for a realistic look..even for an artsy look! > Another reason could be you are not using shadow generation in trace mode... > shadows add greatly to the effect of 3-D. If you are using more than one lig > make sure they are ALL in shadow mode for maximum effect (this lengthens > trace time, though). Well, setting the lights to cast shadows helps in many instances but there are certainly times when you don't want certain lights to cast shadows. When you use multiple lights, the control of shadow casting becomes a bit more crucial. You don't want to arbitrarily turn shadow casting on in all circumstances. > I would suggest you get a good basic book on photography or filmmaking to lea > about the way lights behave in real life...this will help immensely in using > Imagine, because the lighting situations are practically identical. In the > meantime, a few hints: Getting a good lighting for film book will help but playing around with simple objects (spheres and such) and different light settings along with reading the books will help the most. > Basic two-light setup: > > 1) Your main or key light...make this bright. For a sunny day or well-lit > room, use a shadow-casting spherical light, RGB=500,500,500 or so. This shou > be positioned to one side of the object and in front of it (relative to the c > if you want to be able to make out the surface of the object. It should also > probably be higher than the object (for anything except space scenes, shadows > fall downward from the main light...if they go up, it looks odd). 45 degrees > front of the object and 40 to 60 degrees elevation is a good rule of thumb. > > 2) Your fill light...spherical, shadowcasting (if you can afford the additio > trace times), RGB about 150,150,150 to 200,200,200. This will give you prett > decent fill in your main shadows. If you want the shadows a little more pron > drop this light to 100,100,100 or even a little less. Place this one on the > side of the object, perhaps 30 to 60 degrees away from the camera. It can be > in front, a little behind...make sure it is at a different elevation than the > key light. > > 3) Use a SMALL amount of ambient light to fill in the areas not hit by eithe > the main lights. I use 10,10,10 in all my renderings. In alot of cases you can omit the fill light in front of the object and use it behind and either above or below the object to get some highlights on your objects. Alot of the work I do requires sheens on bevels and such and lights to the sides or top/bottom and a little above gives the objects more definition. In photography it would be called a "hair" light. Instead of the fill light you can get away with uping the ambient light to something like 25,25,25..sometimes more depending on the look you are trying to acheive. > If you get a good book, it will go into much more detail than this, detailing > advanced 2-light setups, 3, 4, 5, and more lights, and specialty lights like > 'kickers' or spots. If you can't find what you need in a local bookstore > under photography, try a University or College bookstore, or an art store or > photography store. Most basic lighting is exactly as Chuck described but most basic lighting really starts with 3 lights (key, fill, hair). In most cases however, there is also a background light so your basic setup usually is a 4 light setup. From there on, it's all playing around with spots here and there. Of course this is purely in a portraiture sense. When trying to portray a totally real scene, you must consider the actual sources of light and try to emulate them the best you can with the tools you have. Luckily Imagine has some *very* flexable lights. The ability to make an object into a light source is great. You can create large softlights this way! But lighting for 3D will take some time to figure out. It's not going to happen in the same type of timeframe as it took to learn how to work Imagine. It will probably take much longer than that as it is a creativity type thing you are trying to learn. You must first learn the basics and then experiment from there. Once you have a good grasp of the basics of lighting for 3D, you will be well prepared to create and render scenes that come out the way you expect them to. As a side note, RayTracers are not really well suited for realistic light rendering. To get a more realistic lighting model, you would have to use some amount of Radiosity in your rendering. Ray tracing can produce some great images as long as the objects in the images contain shiny or transparent surfaces. However, real environments contain a large amount of diffuse surfaces such as painted walls, carpets, computers, drapes, etc. Ray tracing is not particularly good at simulating these types of surfaces. Radiosity on the other hand IS very good at simulating diffuse objects but quite terrible with shiny or transparent objects/surfaces. With radiosity, the effect of diffuse lighting is that objects that do not receive *direct* lighting can be illuminated by the lit objects near them. Sort of like if you point your desk lamp at a white card and then move the white card around. The walls and objects in your room are lit by the reflection (diffuse indirect) light bouncing off the white card. Ray tracing can not do this, or, if it can, it would take an inordinate amount of time to render a single frame. The best of both worlds is a renderer that can do both radiosity and ray tracing. However, there are not (to my knowledge) any user friendly 3D packages utilizing radiosity and ray-tracing at this point in time. Radiance does both but the user interface isn't. -- Bob The Graphics BBS 908/469-0049 "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!" ============================================================================ InterNet: bobl@graphics.rent.com | Raven Enterprises UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!bobl | 25 Raven Avenue BitNet: bobl%graphics.rent.com@pucc | Piscataway, NJ 08854 Home #: 908/560-7353 | 908/271-8878 ## Subject: Re: Lighting in Imagine Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 08:49:14 EST From: Adam Benjamin In a previous article cazabon@hercules.cs.uregina.ca writes: >1) Your main or key light...make this bright. For a sunny day or >well-it room, use a shadow-casting spherical light, RGB=500,500,500 >or so. Hmm, that's about what I thought SHOULD work, but this latest thing I am working on (using the TEX 3d fonts from Hubcap) I can't see anything but black and maybe a dim outline untill I crank the light over RGB=3000,3000,3000 !! (And YES I have set some color attribute to the 3d text) I use sperical non shadow light (this is scanline rendering) and do not have diminish intensity on either. What I really want to know (in addition to the help you-all have sent already) is: What TYPE of light do you use? spherical, diminish intensity, etc... If your object is at (or moves around near) coordinates 0,0,0 Where would you put the light source? (x,y,z) It sounds like most of you use at least 2 lights. That I will have to try I bet that will help a lot. But why do you suppose I need to crank the light up to such high RGB values? Am I wrong in thinking Imagine can produce good looking pics/anims in scanline mode? Geez, I don't have all month to do a trace animation. Will scanline mode produce shadows at least in surface details on the object? (this is more highlights/shading than shadows) ************************************************************ * Adam Benjamin A.Benjamin@mi04.zds.com * * Christian Animator an353@cleveland.freenet.edu * * Disclaimer: Nothing I say means anything to anyone that * * might take it to mean something I didn't! * ## Subject: TTDDD Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 13:23:29 -0400 From: kelly@ll.mit.edu Greetings; Can anyone out there tell me a little about the program TTDDD? Specifically what kinds of things can be done with it (especially by none programmers such as myself). I downloaded some nice 3D fonts from hubcap that were converted from TeX with TTDDD. Is this the kind of thing that I could do with little or no programming? Also what other programs/excessories would be useful with TTDDD? Thanks for the help! " be excellent to each other " George Carlen to Bill & Ted Dave Kelly <--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------>kelly@ll.mit.edu ## Subject: Professional Fonts in Imagine ?? Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 17:02:32 +0200 From: Hannes Heckner Hi imagining people, I recently tried to produce some good-looking fonts for Imagine. The main problem was to provide the letters with these professional looking edges (for reflecting light etc.). I can't describe it very well cause I don't know the right words, but in almost every professional Animation the letters have no simple edges. They have these light reflecting egdes which makes them look so good. So I tried to find a way of producing them in Imagine. But all efforts were useless because Imagine can't outline a letter. So everyone out there who has an idea of forming letters with these super edges please help me. Hannes P.S.: Hope this mail causes no bounces :) ## Subject: Re: Lighting in Imagine Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 15:23:37 MET DST From: Markus Stipp > But I still don't really like the results I am getting from the > renderer. Even in Trace mode things look... How do I say this... > "fake". I am pretty sure this is due to the lighting of the stage. > what are typical lighting settings? what type of lights do you use? > How many lights? > Where do you put them? (Near the camera? etc..) > I know different scenes need different lighting, but I feel any input > from you wizards will help me out 8-) Normally I use one lightsource which is NOT dimnish intensity and will cast shadows. I place this light FAR away from the scene somewhere behind the camera. Then I put a few more (3 or 4) lights IN the scene with dimnish intensity on. A few of them with cast shadows on, others with cast shadows off. Play with it. I receive fine results with this method. > In case you wonder... By "fake" I mean, flat, lifeless, even toned > (sometimes I get one big Specular flash over the whole object!) other > times I get very uneven light. Things seem to go from specular > highlight to black with no color. I think this is the effect if your lightsource is too near to the objects. -- ...Markus Stipp !! (corwin@uni-paderborn.de) ## Subject: Re: Ray-tracing & Radiosity Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 18:03:29 MDT From: HURTT CHRISTOPHER MICHAEL StrataVison 3D (Mac program) offers both Ray-tracing and Radiosity, I don't know however it if allows both at the same time. Probably not. Chris Hurtt ## Subject: Loops Date: Fri, 12 Jun 92 12:51 MET DST From: pe-dia@proxxi.se (Pedro Dias) I saw that you in an earlier letter mensioned that the now famous "Tim Seaton-Loop" was done with. Well, I just had a few more copies dumped into my mailbox, so I guess you guys did'nt bash your heads together hard enough. P.Dias, Sweden ## Subject: TTDDD Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 14:04:32 PDT From: glewis@pcocd2.intel.com (Glenn M. Lewis ~) >>>>> On Wed, 24 Jun 92 13:23:29 -0400, kelly@ll.mit.edu said: Dave> Greetings; Dave> Can anyone out there tell me a little about the program Dave> TTDDD? Specifically what kinds of things can be done with it Dave> (especially by none programmers such as myself). I downloaded some Dave> nice 3D fonts from hubcap that were converted from TeX with TTDDD. Dave> Is this the kind of thing that I could do with little or no Dave> programming? Also what other programs/excessories would be useful Dave> with TTDDD? Thanks for the help! Hi! I am Glenn Lewis, the author of TTDDD and TTDDDLIB (also known as "T3DLIB"). I thought I would post to the list so that everybody would be up-to-date. Basically, the old TTDDD programs, called "ReadTDDD" and "WriteTDDD" are obsolete, and do not support any of the new Imagine sub-chunks. Let me give you a summary of what T3DLIB can do for you from my point of view, which is obviously quite biased. First, T3DLIB consists of two things: a linkable library of routines that allow programmers to manipulate 3D objects and scenes easily from within their own applications. (Of course if you wish to use my code in a commercial product, you must check with me first, as one author failed to do.) The second part of T3DLIB is a collection of filters that are built using the linkable library. T3DLIB supports (reads/writes) most all "chunks" in the Imagine TDDD file format. The source code (and executables that run under 2.04 of the Amiga operating system) are available on hubcap.clemson.edu [130.127.8.1] in the directory: pub/amiga/incoming/imagine/TTDDDLIB. The main program included in T3DLIB is called "ReadWrite". This is the one that makes the previous two programs obsolete, as mentioned above. "ReadWrite" is simply a filter, but a powerful one. First off, I better describe what the TTDDD format is: TTDDD is "Textual TDDD", and "TDDD" is an IFF (Interchange File Format [?]) that has many "chunks" and "sub-chunks" that describe objects and scene for Imagine (and previously Turbo Silver). "TDDD" was created by Impulse, Inc. TTDDD was created by me, and allows any text file to describe in full detail, all that a TDDD file can describe, but is editable and can be algorithmically generated. Back to "ReadWrite"... ReadWrite reads a file from its standard input, and writes a file to its standard output. The input file can be *either* a TTDDD *or* a TDDD file, and the output, by default, is a TTDDD file. If "ReadWrite" is given the "-tddd" (or "-t" for short) flag on its command line, it will write a TDDD file that is directly loadable by Imagine. Since Imagine does not support "external" objects like Turbo Silver did, "ReadWrite" will load any "external" objects at that time and make them internal to make Imagine happy. Also, if one wishes to "optimize" points and edges (by simply removing redundancies), the "-m" (for "merge") flag will accomplish this. This does, however, take much longer processing time, so sit back and let it crunch on the object(s). This, obviously, is the most useful (and necessary) program for dealing with TTDDD and TDDD files. Here is a list of other utilities that are included: tddd2off tddd2nff tddd2vort tddd2ray tddd2ps tddd2mif All of the above are also filters, and perform the following conversions: tddd2off - converts TDDD (or TTDDD automatically) to OFF format tddd2nff - converts TDDD (or TTDDD automatically) to NFF format tddd2vort - converts TDDD (or TTDDD automatically) to VORT format tddd2ray - converts TDDD (or TTDDD automatically) to Rayshade 4.0 format tddd2ps - converts TDDD (or TTDDD automatically) to PostScript format tddd2mif - converts TDDD (or TTDDD automatically) to MIF format OFF is DEC's Object File Format. NFF is Eric Haines' (SP?) Neutral File Format. VORT is the "Very Ordinary Ray Tracer", I believe. Rayshade is that awesome program by Craig Kolb. PostScript output has 4 views: Top, front, right, and isometric. MIF is "Maker Interchange Format" for FrameMaker, and looks like the PostScript output, but is editable from within FrameMaker. The entire T3DLIB package is shareware, and costs $25 to register. Details are in the sources archive on hubcap. As a "Thank You" for registering, I will send you a disk with the two utilities: TSTeX (which created the font you viewed on hubcap from public domain TeX fonts [in PK format]) and SQuad, which generates superquadric surfaces based upon parameters that you supply it. Examples of superquadrics are torii, cubes (with rounded edges), diamonds, and a sphere is a degenerate superquadric. I will also send you a copy of the TDDD file format, which is basically the documentation for the TTDDD file format, as it uses the same names, but is editable. I also provide some examples on the diskette. But back to your original question: What can this do for non-programmers? Well, you will probably find the utilities useful, and you may be interested in looking at the geometric details of an object (OK, maybe not :-). Most definitely, though, the power of the package comes from being able to algorithmically generate or modify objects and scenes for animating or for simply creating/modifying complex objects. Helge Rasmussen, for example, created a program called "igensurf" that uses the TTDDD format and filters to generate basically any surface that you can describe mathematically in closed form. Steve Worley, for another example, created an animation of a waterfall by algorithmically controlling the positions of thousands of little spheres. I, for a third example, created the steam locomotive object on hubcap with the help of TTDDD, and animated the pistons and wheels. One of my registered shareware users has a cabinetry business and models all cabinets and drawers using TTDDD first, and presents a video of his plans to the customer before he ever starts, making each presentation expressly unique for that person's kitchen or room. Feel free, if you have any questions, to send me e-mail. I hope I have answered any questions you have, without attempting to make this a commercial. Future work includes general object morphing for Imagine such that *any* two objects can be morphed from one to the other, with T3DLIB creating all the in-betweens, since Imagine currently can only morph two objects with the same topology (points/edges/faces). Of course, work on this will not continue until Steve Worley and I finish up Essence and ship it. :-) -- Glenn Glenn Lewis | glewis@pcocd2.intel.com | These are my opinions...not Intel's ## Subject: Amiga Animation Tape Date: Thu, 25 Jun 92 14:35:13 EST From: Adam Benjamin Well, I got the Avid Video Contest tape last night. I must say as a starting out animator/video "guy" I was fairly impressed. Nothing to really knock your socks off but a wide variety of amiga video/graphics applications. For 10$ it is definately worth it. There are a few very creative and complex anims and then again there are a few snoozer parts (some poor B&W digitizing being passed off as "art") I would recommend this for any Video amiga user (titling/anim/etc..) and if you are an anim junky like me, there are enough good anims to make it worth $10. #Include standard OPINION disclaimer ************************************************************ * Adam Benjamin A.Benjamin@mi04.zds.com * * Christian Animator an353@cleveland.freenet.edu * * Disclaimer: Nothing I say means anything to anyone that * * might take it to mean something I didn't! * ## Subject: Re: Ray-tracing & Radiosity Date: Thu, 25 Jun 92 3:45:29 PDT From: tucker@cs.unr.edu (Aaron Tucker) > > StrataVison 3D (Mac program) offers both Ray-tracing and Radiosity, > I don't know however it if allows both at the same time. Probably not. > I believe it does do both at the same time. I read a review in New Media Age Magazine about several MAC, IBM, and AMIGA packages (Imagine was not there). They mentioned that it used a custom rendering engine that combined the two. If anyone is interested, I can look up the issue. > Chris Hurtt > Juan Trevino tucker@mammoth.cs.unr.edu